Lets talk PA's.

[Skdimark]

Howdy all!

 

Once upon a time I did live sound engineering. Bread and butter of this setup was a Dynacord Powermate Mk1 powering two Cp15-3's and a custom monitoring job. All the mics were generally SM58's and 57's, with AUDIX drum mics. I used to do all sorts with this setup, from rock gigs to 8 piece bands at weddings.

 

Alas, I went on a hiatus due to being burnt out and generally being a little niave at the time as to what I was doing it for. I packed up the PA and sold it on, keeping the mics etc, just in case. And now I want to get back into it.

 

Now I'm thinking of a budget in the region of 3keur, which would do me for a full FOH and monitoring system, this is generally what I have in mind:

 

FOH:

Dynacord SL1200 running two SX300's and a bass bin (probably an achat 15" sub)

*generic stereo eq here*

*8 or 12 channel mixing desk*

 

Monitors:

*stereo eq*

*some amp, possibly t.amp*

Two SX300's

 

 

The logic in this setup being that I can just run the 4 SX300's for talks, or acoustic gigs etc.

 

Naturally, this is sorta heralding back to how I used to do stuff back in the day. My budget is flexible within reason, but I've seen what some of the german stuff can do. My only question is, is it reliable? Am I missing something or are the brand names still what is the go to stuff?

 

Any input is appreciated.

 

Oh, and sorry for the straight to the point first post!

[TomHoward]

Makes sense enough to me, as the matching SX300s means you could always use them as a four-way matching monitor system with a different set of FOH boxes in the future, We have a very similar system here at work with six SX100+ (the 200W version instead of 300W - a little cheaper & lighter) that's either a six-way mon mix for a larger system or a 4-way mix with two on FOH.

 

If I was starting again I'd probably consider pricing up the active route as well though - we have some SRM350s which although a little harsh sounding are also competent monitors. It may depend on the size of function you are doing. I'd like not to have to hump the amp racks around, although the boxes are a little heavier they aren't usually much bigger - which may be a consideration depending on how much vehicle space you have.

[Skdimark]

Hey thanks for the reply!

 

The biggest gig I can see myself doing with this setup is around 100-150 people. Just need that sub for the kick and keys if they rear their heads.

 

Naturally, if it came to this actually going well, I would grab another poweramp and another bin with two more sx300's and stack em with the bin and two sx300's on top. Should be quite a compact 3.2k system. (Though I never really cared for those numbers, it's really quality that counts and the person at the desk). This should cover up to 300ish people relativly easily. Any more and I'd be looking at a powermaxx system from dynacord or some of the EV tour-X stuff.

 

I also know I'm being a little conseritative with my numbers, but I said if I was doing this again, I'd be doing it properly. The reason for the amp's and desk etc being seperate is just for expandability. Though my old setup was usually accompanied by a soundcraft gigrac1000st for a monitor mix, I found that when it went down it left me up a creek without a paddel!

 

Then again, to keep things compact I was thinking the same setup, but ditching the sx300s and bin and going with a pair of Dynacord D-Lite 15-3's. I've heard these live and they're a really quality speaker. Also, they can take a kick and keys no problem. As you can see, I've thuoght a little too much about this. :( Every time I think I have the "perfect" setup, I back down and start chopping and changing or even starting fresh altogether! I mean, I'm not afraid of my abilities as a sound engineer, the situations I've been in with less than stellar equipment to work with I could write a book about! I do feel that having the 300's and a sub would work better for a proper thump though.

 

If anything, looking at other peoples rigs would help, but I've yet to find any that are in the same situation that I'm in. If I had a van, I'd just grab whatever and lash it in the back... I'm looking for this to be subtle though. I know what I can fit into my car as I've always worked fitting a rig into them. Hell, if I could fit my old one into a fiat punto, I can definitally fit this one into my Polo. Crazy, I know, but that's the way I roll. :D

[TomHoward]

When I say active, I'm talking about the amps being built into the speakers, rather than into the desk - mixer amps and (even worse) 'powered' desks are usually a nightmare when you want to expand - you end up lumping around a heavy powered desk with more external amps, or running a second desk to expand inputs - messy. I personally don't consider active speakers much less flexible than passive speakers and amps - it's a little more difficult as you have to run power to each speaker as well as signal, but if you get some long IEC leads/ single socket extensions made up in rubber cable it can be a lot neater than the domestic 4-gang at every speaker you often see.

 

The beauty of the active boxes is that you can break it up into smaller systems as well - if you were doing a gig where you only needed one monitor, or one FOH speaker (we've done it on single player acoustic gigs / conferences with just a video playing etc) you can break the system down into single boxes as well - or even have two systems going at different events.

[Skdimark]

I was thinking of going that route as well. Actually just as a second pa sort of thing. Just like you said, for smaller events it's a lot handier. I've seen good stuff from a pair of the t.box 502a's and running em with a behringer 2442fx xenyx desk. And at a total price of ~700eur, that's pretty reasonable. Even paired up with their m12 monitors you'd ahve a full pa ready to go. But if anything, I'd just like to run it off one rack, I mean, two poweramps, two eqs and an effects unit would be... Crikey! a 10u one. but grabbing an intergraded fx desk and using a stereo eq for foh and monitors, it comes to a nice 6u + desk.

 

Would you recommend any active boxes? A friend used to run JBL EON mk2's and they were fairly solid! Pity I missed the boat on them being 500eur on Thomann. Going secondhand isn't really something I'm considering as if I do resell them, I want to have the recipt to prove I owned it. A bit more expensive, but at least the warrenty etc will keep me in the clear.

[TomHoward]

Couldn't say anything about active speaker brands, we use Mackie SRM350s as small portable active speakers, but I don't think they are particularly cheap. Others may be able to advise more. For the JBL EON I'd look at the 12" rather than the 15", as the large ones are not a particularly compact box IMO.

[Skdimark]

Checkin' them out now, it looks like those mackies are very popular with DJ's. Must be some loudness for that to happen... Few DJ's I've met have cared for anything else! Thanks for the input in general man, you've been a great help. I find it interesting how many people are viewing this thread vs the replies! I'll be grabbing this PA in 8 weeks, so I'll be sure to come back and tell y'all what I've gotten. Though anyone else who would like to throw in their two cents would be nice.:)

[KidRay]

We're currently using an assortment of RCF powered speakers, Compact system: a pair of 408-A with a 902-AS sub, Mid size: 2 or 4 710-A with 1 or 2 902-AS subs, Large system: a pair of TT25-A with a pair of 4PRO 8003-AS subs.

We also have some 310-A that get used as monitors, and we mix and match the 8 and 10 inch speakers as monitors depending on what main PA we are using.

Not cheap, but good quality, loud and compact (except the large system)

[Skdimark]

We're currently using an assortment of RCF powered speakers, Compact system: a pair of 408-A with a 902-AS sub, Mid size: 2 or 4 710-A with 1 or 2 902-AS subs, Large system: a pair of TT25-A with a pair of 4PRO 8003-AS subs.

We also have some 310-A that get used as monitors, and we mix and match the 8 and 10 inch speakers as monitors depending on what main PA we are using.

Not cheap, but good quality, loud and compact (except the large system)

 

Having read this post, I actually went out and checked out some 422's, 722's, 712's and the 902, 905 and 705 subs. I must admit they blew me away! Unfortunately,

other commitments meant I had to put my revival into this on the back burner, college and all that. So now, a year later I'm getting into putting a PA together.

 

I'm going to run either a pair of 422's and a 905 with a Mackie cfx 16 and a pair of 312's as monitors or go along the other route of a pair of 410's a 705 sub and still go with the 312's as monitors.

 

Now I know a lot of you are into RCF here, and it gets posted a lot. I was wondering two things:

 

1: Will the sound pressure of the 422 compare to the 410s? I ask because I see a lot of guitar and snare in the future of this kit and was thinking of going with the 12's due to the mid range that they bring as well as air-pushing.

 

2: I've noticed dB technologies run RCF components as well as the same digipro amplifiers. What's the deal there? Are they as reputable as RCF gear?

 

Sorry for the super-bump, I've only been able to look into this again recently.

 

Also, happy new year!

[jamesperrett]

 

2: I've noticed dB technologies run RCF components as well as the same digipro amplifiers. What's the deal there? Are they as reputable as RCF gear?

 

 

As I understand it, dB Technologies are now owned by RCF. In the past they've tended to go for the more lower mid end of the market but, in my experience, their stuff works well and sounds good (although not quite as good as the RCF stuff I've heard).

 

James.

[starsky]

RCF have never owned dB Technologies.

 

AEB industrale own both companies (and SGM Lighting) and it has been collectively called the RCF group

 

The Digipro amp is a dB product that is supplied to RCF and in return RCF supply dB with drivers, they are however run as seprate companies

[Skdimark]

 

As I understand it, dB Technologies are now owned by RCF. In the past they've tended to go for the more lower mid end of the market but, in my experience, their stuff works well and sounds good (although not quite as good as the RCF stuff I've heard).

 

James.

 

Which of their gear do you have experience with? Thanks for the reply!

 

RCF have never owned dB Technologies.

 

AEB industrale own both companies (and SGM Lighting) and it has been collectively called the RCF group

 

The Digipro amp is a dB product that is supplied to RCF and in return RCF supply dB with drivers, they are however run as seprate companies

 

Have AEB always owned these companies? Or was it recent? I just find some of the dB stuff, such as their 400watt active bins look appealing since you can get 2 for the price of 1 RCF 700watt bin. For symmetry purposes, I would consider a pair of them combined with two RCF tops.

 

The subs I'm referring to are these dB ones: http://www.thomann.de/gb/db_technologies_sub_05_subwoofer.htm and for the RCF ones: http://www.thomann.de/ie/rcf_sub_705as.htm

[jamesperrett]

 

Which of their gear do you have experience with? Thanks for the reply!

 

 

I own a pair of Opera 215's and a pair of Basic 110's. I've never owned any RCF gear but I've used it in various places and always been impressed.

 

James.

[savman]

Having owned dB Tech stuff a few years ago, I'm now abusing RCF gear and would be inclined to suggest you go RCF if you can. Nothing wrong with dB Tech, excellent bang for buck, but I prefer the audio quality from the RCF range personally.

 

I have not heard the more recent DVX stuff from db Tech which may bridge the gap but I did get to hear the DVA T4 in a groundstack array and it was fairly impressive.

 

I was never a fan of the SX300 but if you can live with plastic speakers I think it's wise to check out the RCF Art offerings, there is something in there for practically everyone.

[brainwave-generator]

We have a large and properly setup dB Technologies T4 line array flown system in a room with good acoustics. Anybody is welcome to PM me and arrange a day to come in and hear the system if they have an interest in it. Since I will have to travel in I would ask you cover my hourly rate, I'm not here to make money but I have to cover my way; I'm happy to help if it helps you.