Benranner Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi, Just wondering if there was a general consensus about what is expected from a venue during a Fit Up and then on to show run? Many people I've spoken to give 4 bodies at 8 hours each for fit up (32 man hours), but then concensus seems to fall apart a bit... Thanks for any help ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Hill07 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 It's another one of those silly questions.. for all I know you could be talking about a christmas panto in a local village hall.. where there may be a couple of staff needed. OR on another scale, you could be talking about a west-end fit-up where I'm sure you'd agree you'll need far more people across many disciplines. More information, and maybe a reason for your post is needed before you get any decent replies! HTHAaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benranner Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 It's another one of those silly questions.. for all I know you could be talking about a christmas panto in a local village hall.. where there may be a couple of staff needed. OR on another scale, you could be talking about a west-end fit-up where I'm sure you'd agree you'll need far more people across many disciplines. More information, and maybe a reason for your post is needed before you get any decent replies! HTHAaron Thanks for your measuerd, helpful and charming responce, Aaron. The origonal question was tring to find out what individuals want when they come in to do their jobs. The theatre is a 1200 seat reciving house, taking in large touring productions from around the uk. We also have a 150 seat studio. I'm trying to work out what people actualy want and need from a fit up and show crew for any size of show (and by the way, christmas pantos in village halls seem to need loads of bodies just to wrange the cast, but what do I know). I've been looking into other standard provisions, and there seems to be an automatic expectation of overtime being paid, which seems a bit daft to me - I'd rather pay a slightly higher guareteed wage than run the risks of overtime in these days of belt tightening. Hope this spells out exactly what I'm after with a greater level of clarity. cheersBen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Even within the realms of professional theatre, there are huge variations depending on the show. Are we talking about the original run of "A Chorus Line" (bare stage and lighting except for the finale) or something like "Starlight Express" or "Cats" where they gutted and rebuilt the theatres over a period of months? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Rig time.. well only you can tell a venue how much you need for it, and be quoted accordingly for it. Pretty much a how long is a mic cable question. It will depend on so many things. The volume of things to rig, the complexity of the things to rig.How easy the loadin/out is.. I've spent 10 mins unloading gear in one venue then 3 hours for the same gear in another, purely because of building design (WHO puts a theater on the 2nd floor with no lift access?!?!?)How able the people rigging are, physically and technical ability.How "bothered" the people rigging are, ie how well driven they are.How helpful or not the venue staff or security are or arnt. the list goes on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 In the venues I work at, the number of crew that are supplied for a fit up is the number of crew that the touring company ask for and pay for. That varies from one single tech in a small venue to 20 or more in the larger ones. I can't see any mileage in a "standard" number simply because there isn't a "standard" show. Every show has different requirements and that's what you should be providing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I think what Ben is referring to is the venues contractual provision of labour, which is at the venue cost. This does not take into account the requirements of the production, it is technical time included in the hire/use of the building. At a venue that I used to run the venue provision was 4 staff for 8 hours (or 32 technical hours) for a fit up, and 4 staff for 4 hours for a show; for the smaller venue it was 2 staff for 8 hours for a fit up and 2 staff for 4 hours for a show. Any other staff required by the visiting company was then at that companies cost, with a very few exceptions. Technical staff, be they the Technical Manager, Senior Technician, Technicians, casual Technicians, Followspot Operators, Wardrobe and Wigs Staff that were not included within the contractual four staff were recharged, and recharged at a higher rate that they were paid. This was an extremely important revenue stream for the venue, and would be the model that most are run on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Same answer really.. what do you want done, in what time, so how many people.... ie how much you want to spend? Empty venue with no staff or 40 helpers? up to you and the decider is always $$$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well not really... The venue will provide some staff at their own cost, any other staff are at the visiting companies cost. I do not think that Ben is asking 'should I provide all sixteen staff that this big touring musical requires, rather than just the four on the contract.' Well st least I hope that he is not. I would never allow a venue to be used without any house staff. However, I am not really sure that this is the remit of the Technical Manager (as I assume you are, Ben), this is really up to the Theatre Director, as he will have to justify the financial side, including how much stuff is given away for free, to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benranner Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well not really... The venue will provide some staff at their own cost, any other staff are at the visiting companies cost. I do not think that Ben is asking 'should I provide all sixteen staff that this big touring musical requires, rather than just the four on the contract.' Well st least I hope that he is not. I would never allow a venue to be used without any house staff. However, I am not really sure that this is the remit of the Technical Manager (as I assume you are, Ben), this is really up to the Theatre Director, as he will have to justify the financial side, including how much stuff is given away for free, to the board. It is indeed the case. Because we're a new venue, I've been asked to look into our contractual provision for discussion with the board. My personal feeling is that it's a better for companies to get a basic level of service that covers their day to day needs, and they can then add aditional crew for specific needs, rather than contractual provision always falling short. Bectu/TMA show call for example is on at 3.5 hrs, assuming the show is 2 hours, plus interval, half and clear down, this works perfectly as a length of time called, but isn't great for longer calls or for alowing additional setting time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 For panto, at a 1200 seater receiving house, we had 8 stage, 4 LX and 1 sound for the in. At my summer venue for every in, the usual request from the visiting companies for another 1200 seater is 2 get in crew. As it is on the end of a pier, we actually have 5 people paid for by the venue. It all comes down to contracts. many touring shows of the non-musical type try to keep costs down, one even says no get in crew of any kind are required - and they will not pay for any. Pay - is the critical bit. Many venues state in the contract X number of crew, if you want more, you pay. For the bigger shows, the really critical element isn't pay, it's time. How long does it take to empty and rig 4 trailers worth? Double the crew, halve the time. If you need more, but cannot afford them, this is when it goes wrong. We did a religious show a couple of years ago - the rider wanted parking for two artics - but specified no local get-in assistance was required. It turned out they used local volunteers, and at 2pm they arrived. The ladies in twinset and pearls took a toolbox between two, and then carried it down the pier. In an hour we had a tiny pile of kit in the venue. The truss and flightcases, the drivers had off-loaded onto the prom. In the end, we simply hijacked the lot and did our usual in - paid for by the venue. The venue were concerned that the out, which had specifically NOT been charged for was going to be left to them. At the end, the single technical guy from the show realised all the old biddies had gone home for their Ovaltine and he was on his own. The venue wouldn't pay for the crew - all hourly paid - non-TMA, so they went home. I get paid for 'the job' so me and the sound guy working for me on the same deal, did the entire thing for free, ourselves. I had to lock up anyway - so not helping would have meant even later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I think you need to offer a minimum provision for contractually agreed technical staff, most producers will want to see this. Are you a BECTU house, ie are your staff employed as per the BECTU/TMA agreement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benranner Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I think you need to offer a minimum provision for contractually agreed technical staff, most producers will want to see this. Are you a BECTU house, ie are your staff employed as per the BECTU/TMA agreement? We're not a BECTU house as yet (though we are a member of TMA)- looking at the agreement, we'd be offering a higher level to all of our staff. As for minimum provision... I'd like to be offering a slightly higher provision than the 32 man hours (I've never worked a large scale in where we've not run over this call), and to make sure that the house staff aren't costing extra on a normal call day would make sence to me... I do appreciate the points that are being made - the whole point of asking the question was to get a range of answers on feelings before we start to look into this tricky subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Pretty much a how long is a mic cable question. Oh come on, that's a much easier question, and one to which even I know the answer: The mic cable is either too long, or too short. I've heard rumours of a third length, but I've never seen one. Edited for SPaG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswell Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Included in our hire cost is all the FOH staff (excluding box office and programme sellers) and 1 staff member backstage from the 1/2 to audience out.Get in/out labour is not included at all and is an extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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