KidRay Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Our band (Tina Turner tribute) has been asked to quote for a show in Kenya, obviously we will be carrying minimal equipment with us and need to provide a technical rider. Unfortunately we don't know the size of the venue, so will have to be a bit vague with the rider.Line up is drums, bass, guitar, keys, backing vox provided by bass and guitar players, also 4 dancers. Some songs use a backing track with extra vox/keys/sax etc. My thinking at the moment is to specify a PA "suitable for the venue" with a 4-way monitor mix and including a sound engineer, handheld radio mic for "Tina", headset radio mic for guitarist (doubles on lead vocal during costume changes), possibly wireless guitar system, not sure if ours will work (legally) there. We are not particularly precious about what brand of equipment we use, as long as it works and is good quality, so for backline I was thinking: 5-piece drum kit, Pearl Masters/Yamaha Tour Custom, must be well tuned, including snare drum and all hardware including drum pedal and 4 boom-arm cymbal stands. Paiste, Zildjian or Sabian cymbals to include at least 3 crash cymbals in various sizes from 15" to 18", ride cymbal and hi-hats. Bass combo or head/cab: Trace Elliot, Ashdown, Ampeg etc. Guitar amp: Fender Twin, Marshall, Vox, Orange etc. Lighting: I don't think we can be too picky here, so not sure what to ask for, suggestions please. I'm sure there are things I have forgotten about so please feel free to remind me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Well, at the risk of sounding a bit self-contradictory... I've worked in Africa (and Kenya) a number of times and your chances of getting what you ask for are slim to nil. However, despite that, I think you need to go into a bit more detail than "suitable for the venue". Some unscrupulous promoter will try to give you two hifi speakers for a thousand seater and argue "it seemed suitable to me". However, brands that are common in Europe can be hard to get in Africa so specifying makes and models will likely get you nowhere. One strategy might be to go into what you want to achieve...maybe "a sound system capable of providing 100dBSPL(A) with a frequency response of 50Hz to 17KHz evenly around the venue, no more than +/-6dB level". I just made that up so think about what your show needs--but I'd put something in. Similarly, I'd specify the number of mixer channels you need, number of auxes (pre and post), and, if you care, some detail of the channel EQ you want/need. Any outboard, even if just a reverb, should be included. Mix position? If you don't want to be shunted into a back stage corner, give some details of where you want to be. Snakes/multicores? Specify how many channels you need in each direction. ...and probably the most important thing: phone and email contact details for yourself with a note saying "we'll talk about anything but please discuss any problems/changes well in advance". You'll still not get everything you want...but a bit more detail gives you a fighting chance. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundo26 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Our band (Tina Turner tribute) has been asked to quote for a show in Kenya, obviously we will be carrying minimal equipment with us and need to provide a technical rider. Unfortunately we don't know the size of the venue, so will have to be a bit vague with the rider.Line up is drums, bass, guitar, keys, backing vox provided by bass and guitar players, also 4 dancers. Some songs use a backing track with extra vox/keys/sax etc. My thinking at the moment is to specify a PA "suitable for the venue" with a 4-way monitor mix and including a sound engineer, handheld radio mic for "Tina", headset radio mic for guitarist (doubles on lead vocal during costume changes), possibly wireless guitar system, not sure if ours will work (legally) there. I agree with Bobbsy, in countries like this, unless you are in the Capital City you will often find that the technology isn't there so you will need to do some homework to try to find a "reputable" company to supply the kit. Often the guys who translate the rider into equipment are not technical and do not understand the differences in equipment which will result in their idea of what is ideal. Your comment about a PA "suitable for the venue" is as Bobbsy says a potential disaster zone. My view is that you should be as specific as possible about power of the PA, Backline, number of monitors, mics, stands & DI's etc but without being too specific on the manufacturers. You should provide a stage plan showing where the kit will be placed onstage, how many monitor mixes are needed and what F/X, compessors, gates etc. are required. Always overspec and put your contact details on the rider so that when they read it and realise hopefully that they do not have the kit you ask for, they will actually get somebody to give you a call to see what compromises need to be made which will then come a bit closer to what you actually need, at least you will then be speaking to the guy om the job and will be able to guage a bit better is he know his stuff!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Concur with the above - but also wonder if you should find out a bit more about the venue - it's going to be an adventure, but before you go that far, you need more information. If they are paying for the air fares, then for them, that's serious money, so the promoter would appear to have sufficient funding for that element, so they should be in a position to respond about specifics. Most importantly, from a friend a few years ago - make certain you have the tickets for the return flight - because if the promoter gets it wrong and doesn't make any money - getting home can be a problem. My friend did a similar style gig in Russia, just after it fragmented, and they ended up paying their own way home, and all they had was the advance payment. They never got the balance, and the promised flights home just vanished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Think we've just had a thread about what a suitable system might be http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=47531 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidRay Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Thanks for your replies so far, the enquiry comes from a UK based promoter, via a reputable UK agent, so I'm not too worried about the financial/transport side as the agent will have all that sorted before the event. At the moment we are just providing a quote, but without knowing the venue or venues it's difficult to be too specific PA wise. As you say, what one person thinks is suitable, another will think is inadequate. Is it worth specifying a decibel level? I realise that we may very well not get exactly what we ask for, but as long as we get something we can work with backline wise we should be okay. If they want to under spec the PA that will surely cause problems for the promoter. A stage plan is a good idea (I should have thought of that!), and will be necessary if we get the booking, I think at the moment we don't need that level of detail. Just to clarify, I'm the drummer, we do have a sound engineer, but he's fresh out of college and still learning, I'm not too sure how he'd cope with a strange PA, so it seemed sensible to ask for an operator to be provided with the PA. Sorry Bobbsy, you've already answered my question on decibel level, I missed that on the first read through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benweblight Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Just to clarify, I'm the drummer, we do have a sound engineer, but he's fresh out of college and still learning, I'm not too sure how he'd cope with a strange PA, so it seemed sensible to ask for an operator to be provided with the PA. This should go without saying really...though it doesn't hurt to have it in writing. For this type of show what should *ideally* be expected is that the system if fully setup for you and your engineer just has to do the mix with the help of a FOH 'babysitter' if they are unfamiliar with the console; not just a load of strange PA equipment dumped there for you to try and get working yourself. Similar to how a festival setup works although more tailored to your act as it's your concert. At the very least there should be a System Tech who is familiar with the rig; and ideally someone dedicated to monitors as well as FOH. Do you have your own Monitor Engineer? If not you may need to ask for one if the size of show warrants it. Also a very good idea to ask for a Backline Tech to take care of all the kit they are supplying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul TC Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 that will surely cause problems for the promoter.Just remember who is going to be on the stage and at the FOH mix position, not the promoter :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidRay Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 that will surely cause problems for the promoter.Just remember who is going to be on the stage and at the FOH mix position, not the promoter :( Agreed, but it would seem perverse for them to pay thousands for the band, flights, accommodation etc. and then skimp on a few hundred for PA hire. We've sent a list of requirements, based on advice given here, to the agent, who is checking through it as they have plenty of experience of this sort of thing. If we get the gig we will be providing a detailed technical rider, so I may well be back for more advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Agreed, but it would seem perverse for them to pay thousands for the band, flights, accommodation etc. and then skimp on a few hundred for PA hire. It happens, all the time. If you don't SPECIFICALLY mention it in the rider then it's odds-on you won't get it - anything you're vague or non-specific about you'll be provided with the cheapest/easiest version of. YOU are the ones who'll end up looking lousy on stage and the promoter will have a (perfectly legitimate) excuse that he's provided everything you asked for in your rider so the only possible explanation is that you're a rubbish band/show/performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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