vinntec Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I am LD for Kafka's Dick at a "little theatre" and need to light a daylight interior scene for most of the show but for the final "heaven" scene, the Director wants a "whiteout". The layout of the theatre means no booms and practically no ability to crosslight. so I really need to use conventional fans from FOH and LX1 plus backlight to provide any sort of modelling and separation. The question is - could I get away with N/C in all the frontal lanterns dimmed for the realistic scenes (with possibly a blue wash on top and the two sides possibly at different intensities), then up to full for the whiteout (and remove or leave the blue whatever looks better)? Basically has anyone done anything like this, and if so is it a feasible option? Would I be better to have one side of the fan O/W and the other coloured? Thanks in advance - Peter Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Could you not whiteout from above? If its short blinders would be cheap and be sufficiently wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Could you not whiteout from above? If its short blinders would be cheap and be sufficiently wide.Jon - yes I was thinking of something along these lines, but the other killer in such a small venue is the number of dimmers... So adding more lanterns means doubling and trebling elsewhere which is what prompted me to try and think of alternatives. PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 You'll likely get the best contrast between the two looks if you use very different keylight. I completely understand the pairing problems though, just designed a little village hall show and used every socket on the dimmers with a good handful of grelcos in use too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 You'll likely get the best contrast between the two looks if you use very different keylight.Hi Jon - with limited channels, dimmers, and power I decided this was the best approach. Rather than literally causing a blinding whiteout, to go instead for a contrasting look as you suggested. So face/area lights will be in straw and blue plus a straw backlight (french windows upstage) and these will be used for most of the show. For heaven, put several O/W downlighters on plus two pairs of O/W birdies uplighting from the pros sides and use the "normal" lights only for minimal facelighting. Simples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Would two four lamp Molefays with a bit of L201 or 202 in them not assist with an insanely bright ending? Depending on your available dimming and the config of the moles, it's only an extra two channels, and as a fill from either side could be quite impactful. Cheers Smiffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 My thoughts exactly Smiffy.I did something similar for an explosion a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I am LD for Kafka's Dick at a "little theatre" and need to light a daylight interior scene for most of the show but for the final "heaven" scene, the Director wants a "whiteout". The layout of the theatre means no booms and practically no ability to crosslight. so I really need to use conventional fans from FOH and LX1 plus backlight to provide any sort of modelling and separation. The question is - could I get away with N/C in all the frontal lanterns dimmed for the realistic scenes (with possibly a blue wash on top and the two sides possibly at different intensities), then up to full for the whiteout (and remove or leave the blue whatever looks better)? Basically has anyone done anything like this, and if so is it a feasible option? Would I be better to have one side of the fan O/W and the other coloured? Thanks in advance - Peter Vincent I think you're not too far away from something that would work. However, don't forget that running o/w (or N/C if you're a yank North American citizen) at a low level will give you an even more orangey colour than o/w alone (which, don't forget, needs blue to make it true white: that's what 201, 202 and 203 are for) so adding blue into that will actually take you nearer to white in your main state. Thus the contrast won't be as big later. I'd use something dirtier as toplight (156?) and maybe try putting a nice wide fresnel either end of LX1 in apricot (147) or something similar which I'd use instead of the o/w backlight for your interior state (thus providing a contrast in angles as well as colour later). You've sensibly worked out that o/w on check and o/w at full are 2 different colours and that's exactly what you should use to your advantage if molefays aren't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 I think you're not too far away from something that would work. However, don't forget that running o/w (or N/C if you're a yank North American citizen) at a low level will give you an even more orangey colour than o/w alone (which, don't forget, needs blue to make it true white: that's what 201, 202 and 203 are for) so adding blue into that will actually take you nearer to white in your main state. Thus the contrast won't be as big later. I'd use something dirtier as toplight (156?) and maybe try putting a nice wide fresnel either end of LX1 in apricot (147) or something similar which I'd use instead of the o/w backlight for your interior state (thus providing a contrast in angles as well as colour later). You've sensibly worked out that o/w on check and o/w at full are 2 different colours and that's exactly what you should use to your advantage if molefays aren't possible.Hi Eric - that sounds interesting. My current thoughts are to light the main areas in fans of blue from one side and straw/light amber (rather than dimmed O/W) from the other with a deeper amber backlight . The idea being that I could bias the straw/amber to be more obvious for most of the play so that when I added some O/W toplight and uplights (and dimmed the area lights) then there would be a noticeable contrast (rather than a blinding effect as such). From what you are saying, keeping the blue (L201) on in the whiteout state might also help (and provide face lighting at the same time). It sounds like changing the ambers to O/W would also work if I included a stong-coloured wash, as you described. The question is which is likely to produce a better look? Would two four lamp Molefays with a bit of L201 or 202 in them not assist with an insanely bright ending? Depending on your available dimming and the config of the moles, it's only an extra two channels, and as a fill from either side could be quite impactful. Cheers SmiffyCould you not whiteout from above? If its short blinders would be cheap and be sufficiently wide.Jon/Smiffy - I hear what you say and this is probably very close to what the Director (bow) had in his mind. I just don't have the juice to run them off - using what I outlined earlier is already overloading one of the phases if I have everything on full at the same time. This is why I am desperately trying to shoehorn the same lanterns to do more than one thing, even though they are not ideal. If I added the Molefays quite a lot of something else will have to come out, and these mainly provide stable lighting for most of the play. I do appreciate your comments and will certainly keep Molefays in mind when I need a dazzle in the future, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Word of warning.To me it sounds like the director is expecting a 'as seen in the movies' type overexposed look.That is never going to happen in a theatre never mind how much light you throw at it. The human eye corrects quite quickly to initial overexposure. I once tried a similar effect by using an 18kW HMI, even that didn't give that washout look.But there are a few tricks you can use to give at least the first few moments maximum impact. Leading up to the heaven scene, try to slowly (couple of 1 minute fades) reduce the light levels. The lesser the light, the wider the pupils in the audience eyes, the bigger the impact when you go into the 'heaven' scene. But eyes will quickly recover....And if there is a cyc or white flats behind, throw a lot light on that. Having a bright surface behind the actors again tricks the eye giving it a more surreal feel. Then use your straw FOH wash to just give enough light to see the expressions and you'll have something that may work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Word of warning.To me it sounds like the director is expecting a 'as seen in the movies' type overexposed look.That is never going to happen in a theatre never mind how much light you throw at it. The human eye corrects quite quickly to initial overexposure. I once tried a similar effect by using an 18kW HMI, even that didn't give that washout look.But there are a few tricks you can use to give at least the first few moments maximum impact. Leading up to the heaven scene, try to slowly (couple of 1 minute fades) reduce the light levels. The lesser the light, the wider the pupils in the audience eyes, the bigger the impact when you go into the 'heaven' scene. But eyes will quickly recover....And if there is a cyc or white flats behind, throw a lot light on that. Having a bright surface behind the actors again tricks the eye giving it a more surreal feel. Then use your straw FOH wash to just give enough light to see the expressions and you'll have something that may work.Roderick - you are so right! Fortunately, just before the heaven scene the action moves downstage into a single special (so the heaven set can be sorted out behind). If I deliberately keep this as dim as I can, then when the heaven lights come up the impact will be maximised - even if I can't squeeze blinders out of my poor overloaded power supply. So if it looks significantly different to before and seems brighter then that might do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Is this at the Chesil Peter? If so you could go down the blinder route, and as you are right next to the patch bay, only patch them in when appropriate. that would mean only using up two dimmer channels for a very minimal time, (they can be something that is only used in act one?) and being able to balance your phases(ish!). PM me if you decide to go the blinder route and I shall sort them out for you. Regards, Andy Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi Andy - haven't seen you for ages. Yes you are right the LX op could patch them in and out provided he/she is an octopus (and can count in sixes). Actually the whiteout lighting has to come from the auxiliary dimmers, which if you remember are under the perch (and certainly not accessible during a performance). Almost everything on the main desk is committed to the core of the play so wouldn't go dark until just before the heaven scene and I have serious worries about frantic patching in between two cues - one short dialogue of 14 lines.. However what you say makes sense but I am not yet convinced about blinders for this play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac500 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 L281 is a useful colour for you Vinntec. It's warm when used at lower intensities and cold white when used at full. Might be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 L281 is a useful colour for you Vinntec. It's warm when used at lower intensities and cold white when used at full. Might be an option.Thanks for the tip - PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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