CharlieH Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why in particular does it need micing(/miking/mic'ing/micalizing)?He is the only live performer, however he is performing to a backing track. I feel that it would need it, as does he, however neither of us have had experience of a tin-whistle performance in a room as large as our hall. As I said before, I would rather go with the assumption that a mic would be needed, and then turn it down if necessary during sound checks, than to go with the assumption that it would not and then find that it is needed http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Of course you could assume that as a teacher and a musician, he would appreciate the problems of miking his instrument, and would be telling you where to put the microphone. I've always found proper musicians quite knowledgeable on how to mic up their own instrument, and following their advice sometimes is a little strange, but always works. Like the top notch pianist who showed me just the right place to mic up a Yamaha C3 grand. UNDER the sound board, hanging off a strut, taped to it's own cable as support. He smiled seeing my doubtful face, but just told me to try it. Amazing natural sound. However, he said, it ONLY works on a C3 - and he was right on that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 We've moved slightly off the specifics of how to mic a specific instrument but... I think "telling" the musician (whoever it is) they must do "something" is the wrong way around. We, as sound professionals (or at least technicians), are there to support the musicians and do the best we can to turn the original sound the musician is making into something loud enough to be heard at the back of the venue. It's not our job to force the musician into changing their performance to suit our technology. Not that I work in such circles but imagine telling Mick Jagger he has to stop strutting around the stage because it might cause feedback from the monitors--that would be a quick way to the unemployment line! However, in this case it goes farther. The person asking the question is a student and the performer is a teacher. I'm sorry, but students don't "tell" teachers to do anything. The most they can do is say "your need to move might cause some problems with picking up your instrument--can we talk about it?". Technicians, whether student or professional, are employed to support the performers, not dictate to them. All that aside, in this case (unless they're trying to hit stadium concert levels) using an omni mic on the hairline or clipped to the shirt provided a nice natural sound for subtle reinforcement of a tin whistle. Get the live sound right then set the backing track levels to balance with the tin whistle. It might not be ear-splitting loud but I suspect it will be perfect for what you need. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've always found proper musicians quite knowledgeable on how to mic up their own instrument, and following their advice sometimes is a little strange, but always worksI did discuss ideas with him, and he said that when he was recorded they 'used one of those big square mics held up by elastic'. Obviously a studio mic is impractical to use on a live event, so I have to find an alternative :) All that aside, in this case (unless they're trying to hit stadium concert levels) using an omni mic on the hairline or clipped to the shirt provided a nice natural sound for subtle reinforcement of a tin whistle. Get the live sound right then set the backing track levels to balance with the tin whistle. It might not be ear-splitting loud but I suspect it will be perfect for what you need.Thanks to everyone that has posted, I now plan to use a hairline mic, and just play with the positioning of it. I doubt that a lot of gain will be needed, but its not going to hurt, and I think that it is better to be prepared ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 OK Bob, I have to own up that my remarks were slightly tongue in cheek ... there doesn't seem to be an appropriate "tongue-in-cheek" emoticon ... apologies for any confusion. however, (though heading somewhat more off-topic) there's a couple of points that I think are worth further discussion. Firstly, of course you are correct in that “tell” in the sense of “dictate” is not really the right way to go, but “tell” in the sense of “instruct” may sometimes be appropriate. For example many performers benefit from instruction in mic technique which may well result in them modifying their performance for the better. And of course I agree that the role of the technician is to support the artistic endeavours of the performers. However I don’t think this “job description” can be applied without qualification to both professionals and students. Students are learning the skills they will need in their future professional life, and should be provided with the right resources to do this, including sufficient and suitable equipment, appropriate pedagogical support from teachers and tutors, and an environment where the student is encouraged to succeed, but allowed to fail. A reading of Charlie’s posts doesn’t give me the impression that any of these conditions apply in this case. I believe they should all apply to create a suitable learning environment ... but this seems rarely to be the case when looking at the provision for teaching technical theatre in many schools. Given that untill recently there was a lot of money available to build and equip school theatres to (in theory at least) professional standards, to skimp on the teaching expertise to fully develop students' potential ( or equally to overlook the employment of suitable technical staff to run the theatres to professional standards) seems to be short-sighted to me. But now that's less of an issue, because there won't be many new school theatres built... I’m not sure that comparing the needs of the teacher to the staging requirements of the Rolling Stones is an entirely convincing analogy: :) I gather Mick Jagger has a reputation for attention to detail and professionalism, so I wonder how spontaneous those stage moves really are? The choreography may be improvised, but I'd imagine the performance areas are pretty well defined during a fairly long drawn out design process... of course I'm quite probably wrong about this... maybe he does just say "Hi! I want to do this , this and this. Sort it out for me!"... In this particular situation, reading Charlie’s recent post gives me the impression that the teacher has little or no experience of performing live with amplification, (I may have read this wrong) and my own instinct in a similar situation would be to keep it simple. But if the performer’s movement is absolutely crucial to the performance, then I agree that an omni lav mic attached to cheek or hairline is the way to go – I’ve done this myself using an MKE2 stuck on her cheek with toupee tape to pick up a violin and a mandolin played by an actress in a theatre show with reasonable success. (same actress, different moments in the show). I'd be slightly concerned about monitor levels, but perhaps we can get away without putting the whistle in the monitors. I'd guess if the whistle does go in the monitors, this will probably be the limiting factor on the amount of gain available and define where the teacher can actually get to on the stage... (even at relatively modest levels). Anyway, Charlie, apologies if my previous post appeared flippant. It was meant to be a little light-hearted. What I should have said of course is (as Bob and Paul said) discuss it with the performer ... If you have the wireless kit available, and as Bob says, you don’t need stadium levels, then go with that. Somewhere I’ve got quite a good pdf document about how to attach radio mics to performers (probably got the link from the Blue Room, but I’ve had it so long I can’t remember). I’m afraid even though I’ve looked in the help menu, I can’t find the button that lets me attach documents, but if you think it would be useful, PM me and I’ll send it ... or perhaps someone else knows where to find it on the forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hi AndyPM sent http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gifThank you very much for your help! I am unsure whether he has any performance experience - he has been playing for a long time so I would assume that he has, although I have no proof either way. I am planning on not putting him through the monitors, for the exact reason stated below - and due to the tone of the instrument I doubt that it will be needed. We can probably spare a mic pack, whether we can spare a channel is another matter but I can work on that when I actually get a definitive performer list! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't know if it's what Andy was thinking of but there's a good article about mic mounting HERE. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Nice link Bob, but not the one I was thinking of... I've finally got round to searching the forums, and found the original link, it's this: Radio Microphones, the Art of Concealment - originally posted last year by AndyL (somehow I thought it was much longer ago, perhaps because the date of publication of the article was 2006) anyway, the more info available, the better... E2A - on further reading, I'm not sure about concealing the pack in the dancebelt.... surely a pair of socks gives better results in this area??? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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