Basic mixing

[ExpressYourself]

Sound reinforcement for a choir? WHY? Are they a very small choir? in a very large space? or is the accompaniment too loud? I sing with two choirs and we would never dream of using PA. Even a small group of 12 can easily fill a medium sized church if they are any good. If the accompaniment is too loud then turn it down! In fact, a single (classical) soloist can be easily heard un-amplified in a large church with a full orchestra - you just need competent musicians and a decent MD who know what they are doing.

 

We aren't a classical choir, nor are the members what you would call competent musicians. It's a community choir, no auditions, no ability necessary, so projection isn't part of what we do. Plus with the kids, it's about getting them to have a go. I just want the audience to hear them. Something that didn't happen at the last concert. Especially since it was a day time community event so we had crying children (and fidgety adults) in the audience. As well as people coming in and out.

 

I am a decent MD, who just wants to know how to amp her singers please.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Thanks meyerm3d and cedd

 

I'm looking at the Yamaha desks - I'm not sure about the CX ones because I think the extra effects would never get used since I'd never know when to use it!

The MG166C(X) looks very large too. Perhaps a smaller one, but then I'm at the risk of being stuck again later!

 

Shure SM58 would be great - I guess a couple of them for the soloists and forget about the Trantec altogether, especially since they may not work anyway.

 

I think condenser mics probably are the way to go. How do you suspend them? Just on 4 tall stands or do you have a beam like structure? For the main choir we only have 2 sections so perhaps 2 mics would be enough.

 

I'll take a look at the spirit mixer too. Gosh it's a minefield!

 

Keep the advice coming - it's all very welcome!

[MarkPAman]

They went for behringer condensers ....... I'd have a search on here for the best ones, and I can't remember the model they use off the top of my head.

 

Do you mean these? Fantastic mics for under £50 a pair.

 

The t.bone EM700 is also very good value for money at a tenner less & includes shock mounts too.

[Paul TC]

Keep the advice coming - it's all very welcome!

 

One question, will you be conducting the choir and expecting the sound system to be set and forget , or are you going to have a operator for the sound system and what level of skill do they have ? May make a difference in what people recommend and what you can do.

 

Additional point, do not forget to add in cost of cables. and possibly flight case's or even good quality plastic storage boxes (with secure lids), to store and transport this equipment. Both these figures soon add up.

[ExpressYourself]

It's a set and forget system at the moment. Everyone who can help me is singing!

 

I was just looking at the behringer C2s. They do seem to be well thought of, and I'm encouraged by the mention of choirs on the Behringer website.

 

Still not convinced which size mixer I need though

[MarkPAman]

Soundcraft EFX8 is a good little mixer which will let you do what Cedd suggests. 2 pairs of condensers and this should leave you with money for a couple of (wired) vocal mics too.

 

Then you'll want stands (Studiospares or CPC's Pulse are cheap) & some mic leads - don't buy the cheapest mic leads you can find though. May be difficult to get it all for under £500 but you shouldn't be far off.

 

Edit to add:

 

As you say you don't want effects (missed that bit earlier), the Soundcraft EPM8 saves a bit more money. That £500 is looking more doable!

[cedd]

Thanks for the reminder Mark, yep it's the C2's. As you say, great little mics.

 

As for the question about suspension method, I find that a nromal boom stand is just about right at its' full extension, especially one with a telescopic boom.

 

You may struggle with the "set and forget" option - I found the choir was a very dynamic thing. Again this choir I worked with was very similair to yours - anybody can join, singing ability optional. They often perform to backing tracks, have soloists and are pretty good! The mix was always changing as different parts took the tune.

 

One thing I did find out very early on though, the most difficult thing with a choir performing to backing tracks is their own mix, not that of the house. They need to be able to hear the backing track, as does the MD, but you don't want to be fighting their speakers and want as little pickup of their foldback in the stage mics. Not an easy balancing act, especially in small to medium sized church halls. It doesn't help that there are over 70 bodies in the choir! At least 20 of them may well be able to sing!

 

Whilst you've not mentioned monitoring yet, I think you'll find it to be a necessity very quickly. In practice floor monitors just don't work. The front row get tons and the back get nothing. We found that a pair of speakers sat directly behind the house speakers, on stands and pointing back at the choir, gave the best results. It also simplifies cabling as the 2 speakers can share a power cable and it's the same run for the audio cabling. I also gave the MD his own foldback speaker, this time a wedge though. Whilst we also went a step further and gave the soloists their own wedges too, this is a niceity and was worth it only because of the size of choir they were and the venues they were playing. They also had the luxury of having access to a fair bit of my gear for free. Not many choirs tour with multicores, outboard racks, 5 monitor speakers, redundant playback machines and a 24 channel desk.