Getting your safty concerns listened to

[kalmatthew]

At school we have 6 Lighting bars, none of which have a SWL, 2 of which have been dropped by a meter or too, by the previous Teacher in charge in a weekend. I have spoken to the schools premises manager, handed him a copy of LOLER and told him that the bars should not be used until they have been inspected and certified. I was told "we have been using them for years, nothings gone wrong yet, I'm sure they are safe." I am about to express my concern in righting to the Head teacher and copied to the chair of the governess. The school is a licenced venue, would I be correct in thinking that the Licensing Officer would be interested in knowing that the bars were not tested. Is there any way I can ensure that something is done. If I refuse to use the bars, the school will get someone else to do it. At least if I rig the Lights, I make sure that we don't go to mad on the bars. (we had some guy try to hang 4 macs from one LX bar they sagged in the middle).

 

Thanks Kal

[Guest lightnix]

You're right to be concerned and to go about it by letter, although I would send a copy to the Premesis Manager as well, so that he can't say you went behind his back. You might also consider adding the Parents Association to the list.

 

EDIT:You could of course get your parents to write the letter instead. I'm not being patronising, but the school may take the matter more seriously if the complaint comes from them.

 

I'd say they have three possible courses of action:-

I) At least have the bars tested and given an SWL, so that at least you know how much you can safely hang on them.

ii) Have the bars replaced, which would be more expensive.

iii) A combination of the above, where the worst / most heavily loaded bars are replaced and the remainder given SWLs.

 

You could mention the Licencing Officer, but the problem with making threats (even veiled ones) is that you have to carry them out if people ignore them. There is the risk that the LO might just condemn the bars and/or the school say they don't have the budget to fix them. You may wind up with nowhere to hang any lights :(

 

Another thing to consider may be your own position, particularly once you've pointed out the dangers to others. If you consider these bars to be potentially dangerous, then how can you justify hanging anything on them? I know you said that...

At least if I rig the Lights, I make sure that we don't go to mad on the bars.

...but what do you call mad? 30kg? 50? and how would you define your "competence" to make that decision?

 

Don't worry, I'm not having a go (for a change ;) ) and I'm sure others will put me right on a couple of points, if not more.

 

...2 of which have been dropped by a meter or too, by the previous Teacher in charge in a weekend.

What do you mean by "dropped", exactly?

 

If I refuse to use the bars, the school will get someone else to do it.

You're neither the first nor last to face this situation and and it certainly won't be the last time you have to, either. At least you don't have the added commercial pressures of making a living and getting the next gig to deal with. Yet ;)

[landy]

As far as the licencing officer goes I have found that asking their advice will be of benefit, because it shows them that you are aware of the issue and that you want to solve the problem. This hopefully put them in a good mood and they will help you come up with a plan of action which is realistic and usable. They may even have an idea that you haven't thought of which is satisfactory for your situation.

 

I have also heard of techs tipping off the LO who makes a 'spot check' generally just as the problem is rigged and so there is time to fix it. like the techs said all along.......

 

At the end of the day walk away if school don't listen, don't take the risk. you probably wont be legally responsible as a pupil but the guilt would haunt anyone if the unthinkable did happen.

[kalmatthew]

to answer some of nix's concerns:

 

I have just had 5 PAR's on one bar and 4 Cantatas on another. This has been done many times before(not that that makes it right.).

 

Well, he took two pieces of metal ( not sure of more deatiles), and inserted them inbetween the bar and the wall in a *-* type arangement, this lowered the bars by about 3'.

 

Yes, but my problem is, is that I know who will replace me, and his idea of safty includes using wires teisted together and coverd in selotape to make an extension lead.#

 

Kal

[sam.henderson]

I think its very commendable that you are standing up to the school and that you have safety concerns. If thats what your replacement is going to be like then stick with it. Why not (ala the rigging with cable ties thread) print this thread off and show it to the premises manager. You have had a very experienced lighting technician/ designer ('nix), Landy (who from his profile says hes a technician for the council) and a sm (me) say its not safe, surly that would be enough for them to take all the lanterns off and have them tested?

 

Sam

[kalmatthew]

I think its very commendable that you are standing up to the school and that you have safety concerns. If thats what your replacement is going to be like then stick with it. Why not (ala the rigging with cable ties thread) print this thread off and show it to the premises manager. You have had a very experienced lighting technician/ designer ('nix), Landy (who from his profile says hes a technician for the council) and a sm (me) say its not safe, surly that would be enough for them to take all the lanterns off and have them tested?

 

Sam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I confronted him with LOLER and was ignored, so I'm not sure about the effectiveness of this thread, however a couple of people have contacted me off list with some good, Ideas.

[paulears]

The advice Lightnix gave earlier about getting parents involved is probably the best - the premises officer (is this modern pc for caretaker?) probably has never heard of any of the 'ERs', so almost certainly this will be bin material.

 

In view of the emphasis in schools of preventiveness, I'e conkers, wet grass, snow etc. a letter from a parent asking to be reassured the equipment is safe could make someone think, as they'll have to put in writing that it is - or get someone competent to check. In my experience, the last think staff listen to is students, especially ones who appear to know things they shouldn't.

 

If your parents ask a question and get ignored - that's the time to push further with govs etc. As schools rarely have pels, the local licencing people often avoid getting involved, leaving it to the school to deal with (or not)

paul

[Ike]

Is there anything to make you think the bars are unsafe other than there lack of a marked SWL? Even if your school spent a small fortune (for them at least) getting them tested it doesn't necercerily mean people would stick to the SWLs.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't push to get them inspected, tested or replaced however your school could well decide that the costs out way the benefits of having stage lighting. In todays climate even the suggestion may open up a huge can of worms preventing you and other students from continuing lighting shows.

 

If you feel they are unsafe or your not sure you should follow it up but I can name many, many venues ranging from schools to arenas using unrated lifting equipment. Your licencing officer may be able to do likewise, ours certainly can.

 

 

 

 

*

[lonfire]

hi,

just a little story.. when I was at school they bourght a whole load of new lanterns which all came without plugs.. as I'd been trained by the full time lighting/technician guy who was very good (but had left at that point leaving a drama teacher in charge) and I'd also done alot of electrical stuff before, I knew I was competant to wire them up (although at a school it probably wasn't alowd).. so I was asked to wire up the lights (as I thought I would be), which I did.. but the diagrams that were provided with the lights (printed on little bits of paper) to show where the wires went in the plugs were wrong!! I only noticed this after I'd wired up a few (properly) and I thought I'd have a look through the paper that came with them.. I went and showed the drama teacher and she insisted it was correct!!!! it took sometime to convince her otherwise.. which included taking the plugs off other older lights and also getting in the guy that was around the school doing some wiring!..

 

they had basicaly swapped the neutral and earth wires.. probably somebody getting the colours wrong on the wires on the diagram or something..

 

so yeah.. there you go..

 

rgds

chris

[randomgirlie]

I agree, its great your showing so much concern and quite rightly too. I would say though...

 

Whoever your send paper work to(, whatever boards of advisors or even the parent and teachers boards), make sure you give them all exactly the same stuff and date it and sign it and then keep a copy for yourself along with a note of when they were given it.

 

Facts, ie, dates of events and time often swing things and its amazing how a missing sheet of A4 can turn into a "reason" for not having taken note before.

 

Just a suggestion though xx :blink:

[Chris_H]

I didn't know whether to start a new post or just to tag onto the back of this one as it's kidna the same thing.

I'm studying at a higher education college studying technical theatre, haven't done anything technical yet, but still waiting for that, am I right in thinking that every light hung up has to have a safety chain/bond on it? I was wandering around the auditorium of our theatre and realised that half the lights didn't have safety chains on them, I asked the technition about the whereabotus of the safety chains to which h8is reply was, we just don't have enough safety chains for the ammount of lights we've got (24), to me that seems like a pathetic excuse for not having any form of safety chain/bond, anyway, all I really wanted to know if they have to have safety chains on to conform with any H&S? thankyous

 

Chris

[Freddie]

I really wanted to know if they have to have safety chains on to conform with any H&S?

yes, safety chains or some secondary form of attachment are necessary to conform with H+S regs

[sam.henderson]

I;m not sure about anything written down directly relating to safety bonds/chains (there may well be) however the HSE could prosecute on the grounds that you are not providing a safe working enviornment (HSWA section 2 regarding employes or section 3 regarding the public)

 

Sam

[jagardner1984]

You would also need to check the safety rating of the Safety Bond - see this threadBlue Room

[Chris Higgs]

Any real concerns that people are going to get hurt, do 2 things in conjunction with an adult.

 

1) Call the Local Authority Inspector/HSE in to have a look. That's what we pay our taxes for, and they exist to prevent this kind of thing.

2) Call in the nearest installer of professional lighting/staging equipment. I don't mean the type of companies who install AV or disco lighting, but firms that install for professional theatres.

 

I did a similar thing once, and during the subsequent LA inspection the venue concerned was discovered to have a fire escape that would have collapsed if there had been a fire drill or evac.

I only reported the thing I had the competence to judge, - the lighting bars.........

If you think this reaction is over the top, maybe it is.

Your call, we don't know how bad it really is, you've first hand knowledge.