Universal Fader Wing

[Avalon93]

Hi there! I was wonderin' 'bout the existence of an universal fader wing that can be used to playback a light cue stack, as a submaster fader bank or even in audio application (controlling inputs in multitrack recording). It should be "neutral" (without marks or specifics buttons), but only a phisical fader control for more than one specified lighting control program or audio recording-editing, with the possibility to assign faders freely.

Do you know if someone produces it or if there are informations on how to assembly it, e.g. from an old mixer or similar?

I'm really interested in it, but I'm don't have the knowledge to project and assemble it.

Thanks, bye.

Isaac

[paulears]

I'm not sure about a universal fader wing for lighting, but you can certainly get them for audio applications - They range from Digidesign, who do them for protools, down to Behringer - MIDI is much more an 'open' protocol so as long as a device can send programme and controllers, then most decent software can extract the bits they need to make things happen. I've got a panel on my computers for audio that have play, rec, rewind, ff etc - and they can control a sequencer.

 

It's not so easy with lighting because DMX isn't really that useful - it is great at attaching values to channels, and as such most software can 'read' the level info on each channel and forward it out again, or stick it into the programmer for modification - but getting DMX to trigger specific desk functions doesn't work in most cases. Fader wings connected via USB also are not that flexible, because they're accessing specific software - so Chamsys wing won't talk to a non-chamsys operating system - even though the computer bings and knows what has been plugged in.

 

So I don't think a universal lighting hardware control is going to be a feasable product.

 

It's also worth mentioning that the Behringers are horrible things to make work. Not at all easy. I couldn't make one of mine do something, and they were really helpful, but the instruction email was bizarre. It kind of went, prod, prod, prod,prod, turn, prod, turn, prod, turn, turn, sweep, sweep, prod, prod and so on. I've no idea what these prods and knob turns actually did, but it worked!

[Avalon93]

When I saw Digidesign's control surfaces on their website I would throw me into the monitor and go to put my hands on them... they have a wonderful look!

 

I think that if I'll really need a control surface for audio I'll buy a Behringer, if they can control Audacity or some others free programs for multitrack recording.

 

For lighting, my problem is that I need something to work on the show everywhere, because I'm not a professional technician and I can't tell to venue's keeper "let me in, I have to program the lights".

 

My idea was to program the lights on the PC, with e.g. LightFactory, and go then to the venue, connect my playback wing and use it as a submaster control or simply playback control and connect my PC directly to the DMX via a thing like this.

 

You can think: "why don't you buy Light Factory and his Playback Wings?".

Because they cost a lot and I'm not sure I'll use all of the fuctions that are included in the price...

[paulears]

I'm confused now - with a DMX dongle, you can go to a venue and plug into their system - unless they have multiple DMX universes when you need a much more expensive unit with multiple outs. In practice, people who tour usually have a hardware desk. They turn up and just do a repatch to the house dimmer channels. Sometimes, they'll pick up house movers and use those too, but rarely is this as simple because colours, features and physical distances and locations are rarely the same. You could take in your laptop and magic DMX box and use your cues - but you still need to repatch and tweak each time so it looks the same.

 

As for the venue's keeper - everybody who goes in and uses their lighting desk has to build programming time in, how else could it be done? In practice, for many simpler shows, it would be simpler to use their rig, their control and just rebuild states to match the ones you had somewhere else.

 

So - I can't really understand the problem.

 

As for the sound stuff. Why do people always want to have excellent facilities and not spend any money. Audacity is an excellent product, but it's not really a useable alternative to the industry big boys. It's fine to start on, but you outgrow it quickly. Why not save up, buy something decent that you can stick with for a few years?

[Avalon93]

Hm, you probably are confused 'cause I'm a little confused too :D I have to translate what I want to ask from italian to english, then understand what you write in english and translate it into italian... ;) It can be very difficult... the first thing I can do now is stop posting and read the thread later, so I won't build any confusion no more :D Bye!

[peternewman]

As Paul said, the MIDI fader wings are probably the most universal, with the most chance of working with many applications, particularly if you stick things like MIDI-OX in the way to tweak any MIDI data they generate as necessary. I've got one of the Behringers and I'm very happy with it, they are certainly good value for money. However you are still at the mercy of the lighting manufacturer to build MIDI support into their software before you can use the wing.

 

It's also worth mentioning that the Behringers are horrible things to make work. Not at all easy. I couldn't make one of mine do something, and they were really helpful, but the instruction email was bizarre. It kind of went, prod, prod, prod,prod, turn, prod, turn, prod, turn, turn, sweep, sweep, prod, prod and so on. I've no idea what these prods and knob turns actually did, but it worked!

Paul, there is a Java application available for download from their website that lets you configure the wing using a nice GUI, choosing how you want each button, rotary encoder and fader to behave and which channel/note/etc to use. Then you plug the wing in via USB and you can download the config to it. Much better than faffing about doing it on the wing, unless you're stuck needing a quick change on site.

[Richard CSL]

could you please give us the name of the nice Java application.?

[peternewman]

Yes sorry, wasn't really in a position to do so the other day. It's called B-Control Edit, direct link to the zip. Or just go to the BCF2000 product page on the Behringer site.

[Wol]

There are a variety of other tools out there to config a BCF series device which arent strange little java applications, and just give you a nice spreadsheet view of each control device. I've never got on much with the provided java app, and much preferred the alternative programs available.

 

I think it "BC Manager" - http://home.kpn.nl/~f2hmjvandenberg281/bcman.html