Radio mics

[nelsound]

I have been asked to try and work out what wireless mics I need/want to hire for an up and coming musical

 

I think I have narrowed it down to a choice between

 

http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/home_en.nsf...0-series_021501

 

or

 

http://www.shure.co.uk/products/wireless_s.../uhf-r_wireless

 

both of which it will be possible to hire.

 

As is always the case budget will play an issue, I am not yet sure what it is but I am sure that it will be tight.

 

advice would be much appreciated.

 

Have I missed a much better option?

 

Thanks

[paulears]

Personally, I prefer the Sennheisers - although the Shures are perfectly fine, so if one is a better deal, take it!

 

The mic selection may be a bit more of a problem. Clip on lavs might be ok for some things, but it depends on the show - maybe the supplier has alternatives?

[Shaggy]

I prefer the Shures as they have a better interface and you can easily do a scan using wireless workbench to make sure you are operating on clean frequencies. I have used the Sennheisers and have had no issues with them as well. As Paul says though, the big thing with this sort of radio system is the microphone on the end of it. You want a system that gets the mic as close to the mouth as feasible. A headset boom mic like a DPA4066 is a far better solution is far better than a lav mic, which is realistically only suitable for low volume stuff.

[Nick LX]

Also working on this show, which is the infamous Sweeney Todd. Early estimations make it seem like we'll be needing 12 radio mics (although the director still is unsure, but we've got time). Which type of mic do you recommend?

 

And also, in terms of speaker reinforcement, do you recommend us hiring in some extras? At the moment we have two RCF Event 3000s. The auditorium is about 7m from front row to back row, and the seats are quite raked (going from 0m to 3.5m high). We have about 200 seats. Not sure whether we would need something to help out our 3000s?

[chelgrian]

Also working on this show, which is the infamous Sweeney Todd. Early estimations make it seem like we'll be needing 12 radio mics (although the director still is unsure, but we've got time). Which type of mic do you recommend?

 

And also, in terms of speaker reinforcement, do you recommend us hiring in some extras? At the moment we have two RCF Event 3000s. The auditorium is about 7m from front row to back row, and the seats are quite raked (going from 0m to 3.5m high). We have about 200 seats. Not sure whether we would need something to help out our 3000s?

 

You can hire the Sennheiser G2s in racks of 4 from Stage Electrics however at list you are going to be paying L260 per rack per week. That only includes black ME-2 lav mics. It's perfectly possible to get enough gain out of lavs however you need to place them on the hairline rather than on the body of the actor. Stage don't do flesh coloured MKE-2 capsules or the discrete booms due to the cost of the mic and the tendency for them to get broken. For similar reasons you'd find it difficult to hire DPA 4066 capsules at a reasonable cost.

 

I'd expect the Shure UHF-R systems to be considerably more expensive to hire as they are a cut above the Evolution series and compete with the higher end 3000 and 5000 series Sennheisers.

 

In terms of PA your main issue with a steep rake is not going to be volume from the Event 3000s but getting even coverage, it is possible to solve this with fill speakers however it's not just as simple as hanging extra cabinets.

 

Given the size of your auditorium, the choice of show and the costs involved I'd question if you actually need to radio mic at all. However of course you have to make your own decision based on the quality of the cast.

[Bobbsy]

To echo the others, both Sennheiser and Shure make good kit and I'd be happy with the radio side of either--though I too have a slight preference for Sennheiser.

 

I'm slightly concerned by Shaggy's comment that the Shures let you scan for clear frequencies. True--but as a license is required for 12 channels, you can't legally just accept what such a scan comes up with. Any reputable hire company will have all this sorted out for you before you pick up the gear so it's not really an issue.

 

One thing you have to think about is the choice of actual microphones. For theatre use, the pick up from actually using the clips onto clothing is generally not sufficient. Instead you'll probably want to consider hair line or over the ear mounts (and if you do a Blue Room search you'll find lots of hints about how to do this but for either you really want something small or inobtrusive. Of course, if the director will accept headset-type mics, that makes the sound op's job much easier, but for a show like Sweeney Todd, they might be deemed too obvious.

 

Your profile doesn't say where you are, but if you're anyplace near the midlands, I'd give the BR's Rob Beech a call and see what he can offer. His rates, especially to BR members, tend to be unbeatable.

 

I've worked in a couple of steeply raked 200 seaters and your speakers are borderline for the sort of show you're doing. SPL isn't likely a problem but coverage might be. If you have a conventional layout with an orchestra on the floor in front of the stage, that creates your problem area--the first few rows will tend to hear the band rather than the vocals. One solution I've used quite often is using a number of small front fills for these rows, then your RCFs are likely enough for the rest of the room.

 

Sweeney is a great show from the sound point of view--you can have lots of fun with effects like a factory whistle morphing into a human scream. Last time I did it, the director wanted an almost-subliminal heart beat effect--I put a big sub under the raked seating and sneaked it in subtly so the audience only gradually became aware of it. I also had fun with "bodies thumping down a chute" effects and so on!

 

Bob

[Shaggy]

I'm slightly concerned by Shaggy's comment that the Shures let you scan for clear frequencies. True--but as a license is required for 12 channels, you can't legally just accept what such a scan comes up with. Any reputable hire company will have all this sorted out for you before you pick up the gear so it's not really an issue.

 

I wasn't condoning any illegal activity, but this function has come in useful when investigating dropouts, checking that noone else is on the shared frequencies, or trying to find a solution when JFMG give you a license for frequencies that aren't any good, for example they are being used for digital tv. The best hire company in the world can't predict whats actually going on on the gig. Probably not a factor in this show though...

[cedd]

Where I the world are you Nelsound? Always good to have in your profile, one of us may have a rack going spare in that area for hire.

 

Cheapest I've found sennheiser ew300's for hire (list price - once you get a relationship with a hire company, these things tend to become negotiable) is £200 for a rack of 4. With lav mics.

Personally, I prefer the Sennheisers. I've used both and just found the sennheiser's that little more reliable in terms of reception.

 

Sweeney is great fun. We managed to get a mic on every speaking character and had plenty of chorus parts with mics too. We had a pretty fair budget though. It's quite nice as a noiseboy to be able to have an effect on the audience, mainly scaring them out of their skins! As Bobbsy says, Low frequency rumbles, the whistle, you've got a great chance to play!

[Nick LX]

Nelsound (and me) are in South West london, pretty much on the doorstep of White Light. We're probably going to get quotes from Delta Sound, Thames Audio and RG Jones. Any more we should consider?

[Rob_Beech]

PM sent.

[eviljohn2]

Dobson sound are almost on the same estate as White Light, PMI aren't too far away either. I've only got good things to say about the work I've done with these firms. :D

[Chappie]

We're probably going to get quotes from Delta Sound, Thames Audio and RG Jones. Any more we should consider?

If this doesn't break any forum rules, you may also consider us at Sound By Design as we are now based in the same building as Delta Sound.

[jab46]

I would prefer Sennheiser just because I think Sennheiser are better at wireless than Shure!

[Dj Dunc]

I would prefer Sennheiser just because I think Sennheiser are better at wireless than Shure!

 

This is never EVER the correct answer IMHO. You use the best equipment for the job, be it price, rider-compatibility, suitability to the job, reliability etc etc.

 

Dunc

[mackerr]

I would prefer Sennheiser just because I think Sennheiser are better at wireless than Shure!

Which Sennheiser line? Which Shure line?

 

Mac