First Loudspeakers for a tenor..

[padraigdarcy]

Hi people! Great forum btw. I'm loving it.

 

I'm a tenor who sings many styles incl. showtunes, classical, crossover and contemporary hits. My vocals are mainly clean, bright and dynamically varies from quite soft to loud.

 

I'm planning on buying a sound system for use at Wedding Ceremonies in Churches, gigs in hotels and mini-concerts in small venues to a max of 200 people. I'll be using instrumental accompaniment tracks for most of my bookings and I'll occasionally be running Keyboards through the system.

 

My max budget is €2000 (about £1,750) for everything. I'm thinking of the Shure Beta 87a (€200 from USA) as my main mic and for my mixer, the Allen & Heath ZED 12fx. But how about loudspeakers? What would you recommend for this application?

 

Thanks.

[mostlyharmless]

How many input channels do you need?

 

This looks new, and has a built in mixer for a microphone and CD player (not sure about the 48v IIRC for the 87a): http://www.turbosound.com/milan-m15/index.html

[padraigdarcy]

I basically need it to run backing tracks and vocals. So three input channels. Of course, I want to have more channels in the event that I have musicians on board, occasionally, in the future.

 

I suppose the Ev SX300 isn't a bad decision if I can't get further advice on it ... I'm just wondering will it suit what I need it for, as described above. They seem to be a standard loudspeaker here in Ireland and I'm wondering is that a good thing or a bad thing. I don't wanna go with the easy choice if there's something out there that suits my application better for round the same budget.

 

Thanks for the link on the Turbosound Milan 15. Any idea where you can buy them online. I've done a search and found very little on them ... price wise, I mean. Also, any recommendations I get here, I would like to go and hear them in store first.

[mostlyharmless]

Sorry, I can't be of much use finding an outlet for them - I believe they are a very recent release (hence me remembering the mixer feature). You could try giving turbo a call, find out who their irish distributor are?

[paulears]

EV300s, and to be honest, most boxes of similar design are pretty useful allrounders - able to do pretty well in most circumstances when you don't need tons of volume at the low end. They're lightish, sit on stands and will do the job. Lots of people don't like them, but I quite like the sound. It's going back a few years, but we used them for a decent female singer in a small venue Jazz quartet - vocals only, but then we added track for when one of us couldn't make it - so they got most instruments going through them and worked fine for this.

 

If you've heard them, and like the sound - fine. There are plenty of boxes that will do the job - but never having heard the Milans, I'd want to hear them for myself before recommending them.

[padraigdarcy]

Many thanks for your input paulears! Well, unless anyone else can throw some further contenders at me, I think I'll be going to a dealer to get a proper listen to the ev300s. A lot of people seem to like them and I haven't heard anyone saying anything really negative about them. Probably be grand for my first system. If anyone has something to add, I'd really appreciate your input too.

 

Kind regards.

[Paul J Need]

If you're a classical tenor I would suggest saving your money buying the Beta mic.

 

The EV 767 or 267 would be smashing for your vocal timbre and you've saved yourself about e150 at least.

 

SX300 is a solid box - warm, lightweight and good all-rounder.

[Shez]

Just to add another angle to the SX300 suggestions - I'm one of those who really doesn't like them. Every time I've heard them out in the field, they've been stripping paint off the back walls as they're so harsh sounding. I've heard that there's a controller that they're supposed to be used with (which nobody does) which helps them sound a bit better but personally I'd just steer clear.

 

What other makes can you try out locally? No point in recommending something that you won't be able to try before you buy...

[padraigdarcy]

Hi Paul! Many thanks for your help.

 

My vocals would be classical for the likes of the wedding ceremonies in Churches. The rest of the stuff I'll be doing will be cabaret / small gigs where I'll sing a lot of different styles, though my vocal tone will be mainly clean, bright and dynamically varied. As I've spent a lot of time with voice lessons etc., I want my voice represented in the best possible way... within my budget of course. Actually, my site is

http://www.padraigdarcy.net if you care to listen to some demos of what I sing.

 

If you're a classical tenor I would suggest saving your money buying the Beta mic.

The EV 767 or 267 would be smashing for your vocal timbre and you've saved yourself about e150 at least.

 

Wow! This is quite an eyeopener for me Paul. I would never even have thought of that and had just assumed that the Beta 87a was the only choice for my kind of application. Certainly given me something to think about here. I'm going to start researching these straight away. Cheers!

 

SX300 is a solid box - warm, lightweight and good all-rounder.

 

The last few days I've been looking at the HK Premium Pro 12 and the RCF Art series as options for my full range loudspeakers also. Any thoughts on these??

 

I've learned a few things from the forum here anyway; 12" seems to be the best choice for mainly vocal applications for smallish gigs (not more than 200 audience) and.. the EV SX300 seems to be quite unpopular on here!! But then, I have no intentions of being a sound engineer anytime soon, so the SX300 is defo a contender for my needs. Basically just want the best I can get for my budget, you know.

[dan slv-tech]

EV SX300 are indeed good boxes, maybe a bit overpriced for what they are compared to other boxes on the market, though there are plenty on the 2nd hand market at the moment.

Beta 87, nice mics, I have a couple in hire stock, though I would say have a look at lots of different mics, the EV mics are nice, maybe a bit chunky looking, as are sennheiser offerings, though these can be a little fragile, or indeed the Beta 87, nice solid but not as nice sounding as others in certain circumstances.

 

Id choose what you can afford, don't scrimp on speakers then buy an expensive mic, pointless, everything in the chain needs to be of comparable quality, also wooden boxes and plastic boxes do sound different, both having different qualities, (weight, performance, robustness)

 

above all let your ears do the listening, and not some salesman!

 

dan

[padraigdarcy]

EV SX300 are indeed good boxes, maybe a bit overpriced for what they are compared to other boxes on the market, though there are plenty on the 2nd hand market at the moment.

Beta 87, nice mics, I have a couple in hire stock, though I would say have a look at lots of different mics, the EV mics are nice, maybe a bit chunky looking, as are sennheiser offerings, though these can be a little fragile, or indeed the Beta 87, nice solid but not as nice sounding as others in certain circumstances.

 

Id choose what you can afford, don't scrimp on speakers then buy an expensive mic, pointless, everything in the chain needs to be of comparable quality, also wooden boxes and plastic boxes do sound different, both having different qualities, (weight, performance, robustness)

 

above all let your ears do the listening, and not some salesman!

 

dan

 

Good advice. Thank you Dan. Actually something you mentioned "everything in the chain needs to be of comparable quality"; quick question regarding that.

 

Just how much do amplifiers and compressors influence the sound coming through the loudspeakers?

 

Obviously the compressor is going to process the sound to help keep my louder vocals in check. Sound engineers (Musical theatre) have commented on how my vocals can go from very quiet to quite loud and that's the reason I'm thinking of having the compressor on board. It's certainly not something I want to "overuse" and hopefully I'll be relying on it as little as possible. Here's the thing, I have a Composer pro XL MDX 2600 already and kinda want to make use of it when I get the system up and running. Could that be a bad kink in the chain of quality? And how about amps, is an equally high quality branded purchase in order here too or are they essentially just a workhorse that makes everything louder ... but doesn't necessarily 'colour' the sound. Forgive my lack of knowledge here... I'm still learning.

 

Cheers.

[dan slv-tech]

Compressors are something I use sparingly, too much and it sounds like mush.

Theres nothing right or wrong about the behringer composer pro, it does what it says on the tin, not the greatest, not quite the worst compressor out there, id use it sparingly across your vocal only, you only want to keep a lid on your loudest registry, so it doesnt overload everything in the chain and make old ladies cover their ears.

 

Ive worked for audio companies recently that compress the life out of everything in order to get the maximum out of the system, but it sounds so lifeless, not for me im afraid.

I had a quick listen to one of your tracks, nothing particually rawkass in there, so with a decent PA you should be able to faithfully reproduce as it sounds on the MP3 on your website.

 

Id put a compressor across your vocal, just to keep a lid on things, but ultimately good mic technique is more important.

Personllay id go for a nice sennheiser mic maybe a E845 or similar, your SX300s if you must have them, a decent amp something like a QSC PLX 2402 ( from the top of my head) lightweight, but reliable, and a responsive EQ section on a mixer, dont buy behringer or el cheapo mixers, buy cheap, pay twice.

Id suggest something like a small soundcraft, or similar,maybe a a & h desk, def something with sweeps in the EQ section, these will save your life in crappy venues!

I reckon you can get a 2nd pair of SX300s, a 2nd hand PLX, a mic of your choice (new) a mixer, stands, leads and still have a bit of change left!

 

Just my opinion, and im sure others will have theres.

 

Dan

[padraigdarcy]

Wicked. Lot of great useful stuff for me to look at now. I would totally agree with using good mic technique moreso than relying on processing all the time but, as a solo act, the little bit of compression on the top can be my safety net when I need it.

 

Speaking of micropones, I noticed the EV ones that were recommended earlier are in fact, dynamic microphones? Now I'm very curious to know why Paul recommend the EV mics over the Beta 87a. Am I right in saying dynamics have a more pre-defined tailored sound/response? Whereas as a good condenser mic gives a more detailed sound overall.

 

Was thinking of Allen & Heath ZED12FX as my mixer. I hear it's pretty decent brand for mixers and with this particular model it has reverb effects onboard as well as being able to record live from the usb output.

 

I'm really tempted by the HK AUDIO PREMIUM PRO 12 - anyone using these or can recommend them?

[UKTwister]

Buying used is pretty much risk free.

 

You buy it at discounted price.

You decide if you like it or not.

If yes, enjoy the fact you've saved some pennies.

If no, It will re-sell for similar amount.

 

The only real downside is lack of warranty. But to be honest, most loudspeaker failures are due to user error.

 

E-bay is fine for used gear. Your protected. If the equipment is not as described in the listing then the seller is in doggy poo!

[padraigdarcy]

Buying used is pretty much risk free.

 

You buy it at discounted price.

You decide if you like it or not.

If yes, enjoy the fact you've saved some pennies.

If no, It will re-sell for similar amount.

 

The only real downside is lack of warranty. But to be honest, most loudspeaker failures are due to user error.

 

E-bay is fine for used gear. Your protected. If the equipment is not as described in the listing then the seller is in doggy poo!

 

 

Cool, nice one. That puts my mind more at ease and of course opens me up to even more possibilities. Cheers.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Wicked. Lot of great useful stuff for me to look at now. I would totally agree with using good mic technique moreso than relying on processing all the time but, as a solo act, the little bit of compression on the top can be my safety net when I need it.

 

Speaking of micropones, I noticed the EV ones that were recommended earlier are in fact, dynamic microphones? Now I'm very curious to know why Paul recommend the EV mics over the Beta 87a. Am I right in saying dynamics have a more pre-defined tailored sound/response? Whereas as a good condenser mic gives a more detailed sound overall.

 

Was thinking of Allen & Heath ZED12FX as my mixer. I hear it's pretty decent brand for mixers and with this particular model it has reverb effects onboard as well as being able to record live from the usb output.

 

I'm really tempted by the HK AUDIO PREMIUM PRO 12 - anyone using these or can recommend them?