Interconnecting mixers.

[Josh 2]

I’ve never read about anyone on the forum using/trying Samson Powered Mixers, so I assume they’re not rated very highly. However, I’ve been using a TXM20 for a couple of years and (as a novice) can’t fault it in any way, it’s been 100% reliable and as the saying goes… does exactly what it say’s on the box!

 

The problem I’m starting to have is running out of input channels (four piece band incl fully mic’d drum kit and occasional ‘guests’). So thing is… because I’m very happy with the first mixer, I was thinking of buying another Samson Powered mixer (TXM16) and linking the two together (input wise) by taking the ‘main out’ (line level) of one mixer and feeding it to the ‘amp in’ on the second mixer. I’m trying to get my head around if there is any point in doing a complete crossover as well (out’s from both mixers to in’s on both). First question… is connecting two powered amps like this a good/bad idea, any pitfalls and if not is there any sense in a single or a dual crossover of the two?. I could do this another way by connecting (already have) an Soundcraft desk that we carry as backup, but I have it in my head (right or wrong) that I’m happier with the uniformality of same mixers.

 

If the forum will please bear with me, don’t worry about the speaker setup, I’d like to pose that as a second question once I understand the if’s and but’s of this concept.

 

Thanks,

J.

[smalljoshua]

There is no need to buy a 2nd powered desk unless you need to run a 2nd pair of Speakers.

 

Buy an unpowered mixer and take the line level outputs from it (Mixer 2) and feed them into a stereo channel on the Main Mixer (Mixer 1)

 

You use Mixer 1 as normal until you need more chanels at which point you just connect mixer 2 into the last stereo channel which would then just control the overall volume of Mixer 2.

 

HTH

 

Josh

[Just Some Bloke]

Yes, the second Josh to write advises the first Josh very well.

 

No need for the extra mixer to be powered as you're not using the amplifier section at all. The benefits are that it is cheaper and lighter!

 

From there you have two choices: you could either use the money you've saved on not having amplification to pay for better features on the new desk (better EQ for example) and use the new desk for the complicated channels and the old for the channels that don't need as much help, or you could buy a less well specified desk (less EQ, fewer auxes, no phantom power etc.) and use this for the channels you don't need to EQ and the existing desk for the more complicated channels, thus saving even more money! Your choice.

[mi-ul]

As 2nd Josh points out - run the additional mixer into stereo inputs - plugging them into the amp in will cut out the main desk!

[Bobbsy]

Good advice above about not needing a second powered mixer. Probably half the value of the powered variety is the amp so you're just wasting money going that route--it's a pricey way to stick with a mixer you like.

 

As for the advisability of linking a second mixer at all, it works and most of us have done it in the past. However, it's never quite as satisfactory as having a single properly sized mixer. The two main things you lose are the ability to use PFL on the sub-mixer without swapping your headset and effective use of the Aux sends. Only you can know if these items are deal breakers or just annoyances--but anything mildly annoying at first becomes a major pain after a few gigs.

 

Bob

[Josh 2]

Many thanks smalljoshua & everyone,

 

My apologies, I either put my question badly or my attempt to ignore the speaker question and then pose a later second question failed me.

 

I understand everything said so far. In fact and as mentioned I could use our spare Soundcraft (non-powered mixer) to achieve the results.

 

Given the comments and also taking Bobbsy’s limitations (which I probably won’t affect me?!), I gather that two mixers can be linked, the fact of powered or not I suppose doesn’t matter. That being said, I’ll try to explain more by moving onto what was going to be my second question and possibly make the first question more understandable:-

 

By using a second powered mixer, it obviously gives me another 1000w to play with. I realize you guy’s are used to megawatt rigs, but in all honesty (I don’t know how/why!) we have always managed well with 1000w (even outdoor gigs) at the local small/medium venues we play. Again, this being said, I’m not adverse to having the extra power (just in case!) and an easily swapped spare P-mixer, so if I did go the two powered mixer route, what would be the suggestions for which inputs to each mixer and then what kind of speaker arrangement from each P-mixer?. At the moment we use EV full range boxes which we could, finance permitting, replace and/or add subs.

 

Apologies again, I’m not doing a great job of explaining, but I’m trying!

 

Any thoughts?

 

J.

 

[E]PS: Band is:- 4 piece... lead voc + rhythm guitar, bass + backing voc, lead guitar, drums + backing voc. Occassional guest... sax, keys. [/E]

[timtheenchanteruk]

If you did want to go the 2 powered mixers route, patching could get messy, and may not even work, depending on the mixers internal routing.

 

IF it would work, I would try it like this, Take the mix line out from mixer 2 back into a stereo pair on mixer 1.

THEN take the mixer line out from mixer 1 and plug it into the AMP IN of mixer 2

 

the only benefit I see of doing this at all is if you wanted to add subs, in which case it would get even messier adding in a crossover.

 

 

The simplest way of adding subs (bar getting a bigger powered mixer) would be keep the existing P/mixer add a normal mixer, and add powered subs.

 

PS your link doesnt work, I think you pasted in twice.

fixed link

[Josh 2]

...... The simplest way of adding subs (bar getting a bigger powered mixer) would be keep the existing P/mixer add a normal mixer, and add powered subs.

 

PS your link doesnt work, I think you pasted in twice.

fixed link

 

Hi Tim and thanks,

 

I can obviously see the sense and logic in this, as well as a spare Soundcraft (non-powered) mixer, we also have a spare EV amp and I suppose I could use this extra kit and/or the addition of active subs to achieve what I’m thinking of.

 

I think that I’ve probably lost my main original goal in thread, which was to keep uniform design/operation (same mixers), if for no other reason than not to complicate matters and confuse myself (any more than I usually am!). My not knowing what/how speaker arrangement to use (1000w to mid and 1000w to sub seems inefficient to me) with such a setup has me concluding, right or wrong, that it’s not a good idea anyway. BTW: I don’t know how efficient they are, but the Samson desk does have a sub out with freq sweep control (sorry about the url. I’ve tried to correct it, but the edit option seems to have gone).

 

Thanks again to all. I think I’ll give up on this one.

J.

[Mark M]

Its going to get very messy having 2 powered mixers! What happens if you get some feedback mid way through a gig, how are you going to know exactly what mixer it is causing it? Along with plenty other potential problems.

 

Personally, if you need some more power and your speakers can handle it I would flog the current powered mixer and get a new unpowered mixer and a decent amp. Doing it this way will at least allow you to upgrade in numerous ways at a later date and will keep everything nice and simple at the mixing desk.

[Adza]

If it is only the drum kit that is causing the need for extra channels then you can use the soundcraft mixer as a sub mixer and then set it up outputting a balanced sound of the drums. Then the output of the soundcraft can be inputted into an input on the powered mixer then doesn't need to be touched during the show and can be relatively hidden away during the show to avoid confusion. (Just as long as you have balanced all the inputs then you don't have to worry about it as long as you are getting a input into the powered mixer.

[dbuckley]

Cross-connecting powered mixers with other stuff can work.

 

I mixed a gig for a modern metal band (now defunct I understand, but their Bebo page is still up) on the installed rig in a club (Level One), which used a Behringer powered mixer (the biggest one!), and through a series of interesting patches it connected to a rack (a flight of stairs away!) with QSC amps and a crossover in it; the amps in the powered mixer were driving subs, with QSCs driving full range cabs.

 

Annoyingly, some arse had vandalised the setup before the night I got the honour to use it (every knob twiddled, every button mis-set, including those on the back of the crossover, every cable mispatched, that sort of thing), so I spent a good hour+ reverse engineering how this thing was supposed to work, and getting it fly. Once sorted, it were loud and adequate.

 

That's one of those sorts of gigs that as a sound bloke you feel you've done a good night's work.