MisterJames Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hello All, Im looking to improve my knowledge in lighting... I know basic things but want more advanced knowledge in amps and how mnay amps you ahevto have to power 96 lights and about profiles and fresnels... And if anyone knows things like what back lights are called... ive been told they are key lights!? and proper names for an up light from the floor? and side lights? Also anything tips on aiming or designing and what colour you should ahve up on a rig for permanant use if you only cna have 5 different colours? and anything else abotu dimmer packs and other things youpersonally think would be good to knqwo or make me come across more professional? CheersJames! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 or make me come across more professional? Spelling, punctuation and grammar would be a good start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 James - please forgive me, but you are joshing, right? You're a technician in a school, where physics is on the menu and you're asking about amps? All the questions you've posed are in the books you'll have in the library, surely? Back lighting or back light? Both describe where the light source comes from, not the kind of light source itself. So a profile with hard edges and a PC lens could be back lighting, as could Fresnel (stepped) lensed luminaires. Even a simple flood lighting would work. TV people use the term 'key light'. For the camera, you're often trying to create reality from the camera's viewpoint - so the Key light represents the sun, or the room light. This creates deep shadows, so you use a 'fill' light to soften them. In theatre we usually use two either side of the centre line - so wherever people sit - it looks ok. As for colour, as each colour use a set of lights - people often split them into warm and cool colours - so pinks and blues, and then specials for maybe sunlight through a window, that kind of thing. BUT - if it's rock and roll, or X Factor - then lots of saturated colours creep in. As some specfic questions and we'll try to help. As a new member - it's only fair to mention that we take SPAG very, very seriously - and as a techician in a school, you have to sound like one (and forgive me here) not sound like a student. Lots of times on here, students moan about the skills their teachers and technicians have, and it's really difficult for a new technician with no knowledge to get useful stuff on here, when it's quite likely one of your own people from year 10 is reading every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Best way to learn is to do the job, starting from the bottom upwards. My advice is to go and see the lighting team at your local theatre and offer your services as a helping hand free of charge - they will probably welcome you with open arms, then just do what you are asked, watch, ask questions, learn and progress until you have enough experience and respect to be able to fend for yourself and make it pay. In terms of learning about what equipment can do, browse manufacturers websites and read up on current stage lighting equipment, that way when someone says a pacific or a source four your'l know what they mean, but the best way to find out what these things can do is to use them! A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Having just read your profile (should have done that first) after reading Pauls comments, well there it is you have a theatre and it would seem you are the boss of the tech side, so, er just play around, teach yourself, pull a couple of books out of the library. Plus you are working in the spiritual home of er. educational theatre lighting kit, W.J.Furse were based in nottingham, I think their successor CCT still is, get their rep round to demo some stuff for you!! Seeing as I have a little time to contribute heres a little about profiles and fresnels to get you started: A profile lantern, often referred to as a focus spot in older books is a lantern with a plano-convex (one side curved, the other flat) lens in a tube, with a lamp and reflector in the other end, there will be some means of moving the lens in and out from the lamp to enable you to get a sharp beam edge, their may be a set of shutters to help you shape the beam and will generally be a slot for a gobo, a metal slide that alows simple image and shape projection. There will probably also be a facility to add a second lens to widen the beam. There are many, many profile designs, the classic found in many schools is the Strand Pattern 23 that resembles a hogs head, more recent designs include the Quartet & SL also by Strand as well as many others. A fresnel lantern has a ridged lens that disperses the light more softly than a PC lens, these have a fixed lens and the lamp is movable to widen or narrow the beam (the closer the lamp is to the lens the wider the beam), they cannot be hard focussed. The Strand Pattern 123 and 223/743 are classic and much used fresnels, again there are many, many model variants. There is also the flood, a more basic light comprising simply of a lamp and reflector to give a broad wash, these can be grouped into battens (multi sectioned floods) and are often found in this form in school halls. Dimmers are more difficult, there are three distinct generations - Direct operated resistive dimmers, some of these are still in use, but they have not been commercially made since the seventies, then there are various analogue remote systems that may or may not be compatible with each other and now we have DMX as pretty much a standard method of communication between desk and dimmer. With regard to "amps", modern dimmers normally take 2000W per channel, but some take less so check carefully before use, old dimmers may only take 1000W, 3000W = 13A, 1500W = 7.5A, 1000W = 5A, 500W = 2.5A etc. how many lanterns you can run at full load at once will depend on - the wattage of the individual lamps - the number of channels and wattage capability of same - the available max capacity of the supply to the dimmers Hope this gets you started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Hill07 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 More to the point, lanterns come in several types. 96 par 16's will take less power than 96 selecon 2kw arena fresnels so be a bit more specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 75% of everything you will ever need to know can be found here - all you have to do, is take the time to read through it, sort out what is relevant to you and digest it. This may take a few months, but keep plugging away and IME you'll get there in the end :) The other 25% will come through experience. This may take a few years, but keep plugging away and IME you'll get there in the end :P PS - Your profile says your interest has changed from lighting to sound. Is this still the case - or have things changed back again??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Im in full time employment as a: Performing Arts Technician at a school in nottinghamDoes anyone else find that as disturbing as I do, bearing in mind the OP's opening post in this topic? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Hill07 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Gareth - Yes I certainly do find that a bit, ''worrying'' almost. Surely all of those questions should be answered by him, not asked. I may be wrong, but those are fairly basic questions and considering a Performing Arts Technician is sometimes needed to assist teaching staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony g Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Gareth - Yes I certainly do find that a bit, ''worrying'' almost. Surely all of those questions should be answered by him, not asked. I may be wrong, but those are fairly basic questions and considering a Performing Arts Technician is sometimes needed to assist teaching staff! Having been involved with schools for quite a while I would imagine the OP has quite a wide remit and will probably be a specialist in a specific area of performing arts, just not the technical side of lighting it would seem. If the OP could give us all a bit of an intro as to how he came into this line of work (there is an introduce yourself thread somewhere, crew room?) and also a bit more specifics re: the question of 96 lights, what they are and what you are attempting we can perhaps be more informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterJames Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hey guys, yes they are basic questions! but im only 18! and just out of a college where there equipment was not anything special... I understand sound much more then lighting when I was in sixth form... I do more concert lighting designs with my own personal LED DMX lights and scanners... and the school only had about 20 fresnel spots and a random few profiles... I apologise my typing is bad... I was up late typing it. Aswell as being lighting/sound tech at the school of my education I took on video editing and advanced ICT work in there server room. I tried to get as much knowledge of a range of stuff. I was given the job where I work because I self taught myself! plus I have good IT knowledge, video editing and professional photography thanks to a course my mum went on. Im sorry if I come across as very unexperienced but till you know me you wont realise that I do know my stuff but not in a professional way... the words you sue I ahve more similar words for as at the school of my education there wasnt anyone who knew what was what. Now I work in an environment where people know things and the equipment is very very good. all I wanted was guidence notes!... something to read through... to boast my knowledge in lighting much more! Again apologises if ive annoyed people! thanks thoughs who posted good advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 James - I would recommend getting hold of a copy of "Stage Lighting Handbook" (latest is Sixth edition I believe) by Francis Reid which goes through the most important theory then explains how to go about things. I have been lighting as an amateur since 1968 but still refer to it regularly when I am stuck for ideas or want to check something. Amazon have it for £11.26 at present, must be someone you can pester for a Christmas present? Peter Vincent (see http://www.ald.org.uk/credits.php?number=1774 for credits this decade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I know basic things but want more advanced knowledge in amps and how mnay amps you ahevto have to power 96 lights and about profiles and fresnels...James, I suggest you speak to the physics department at the school and ask them to bring you up to speed on the basics of Ohm's Law (and other electrical fundamentals while you're at it), either directly or by recommending a suitable text. If you don't know how to calculate simple current draw, you're not going to get very far at all as a technician regardless of how much you know about the finer points of lighting design. (Should we be following Peter's lead and quoting ALD membership credentials in this topic now?! I have no idea why, but I'm #435 should anyone wish to check! :blink:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 (Should we be following Peter's lead and quoting ALD membership credentials in this topic now?! I have no idea why, but I'm #435 should anyone wish to check! :blink: )Gareth - oops. Apologies I was going to make a point where this was relevant, but changed my mind but left the signature in by accident.Peter V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jay Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 think of it this way, you have 60amp single phase feed to your venue, you need to power 20 par cans @ 1000w each, now do the math 1000w/240v = 4.1amps 4.1amp x 20 = 82amps now you cant power that becuase you have gone 22 amps over your limit, this is of course you have all 20 on at once. So if you now apply these maths to your situation, finding out what wattage your units are and then doing the summs you will find out. I think you are looking at this the wrong way, you are asking how many amps you need to power 96 units when infact you should be thinking, how many of the 96 units you can power with the amps you have availble. Amongst the other books mentioned, a really good one to read is Performance Lighting Design: How to light for the stage, concerts, exhibitions, and live events by Nick Moran Link Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Moderation: 5 snappy one-liners have been removed as they didn't advance the topic, and we don't generally do one-liners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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