Dramaturgy

[Big Jay]

Hi, I am currently doing a degree in Production Electrics. Alot of the course is very much why we are doing such things aswell as alot of practical work and combining the two.

 

Over my 1st year (Now in 2nd) we did (and still do) alot of lectures on performance and what performance actually is which is heavaly bassed around "dramaturgy" (if you dont know what it mean 1. Look it up and 2. there is proberlly no point in replying!) As a training production electrician I am finding it very hard to grasp the concept of dramaturgy and how it will impact in the field of Electrics.

 

I understand that it can be used heavily in Design but what I cant understand how this will help me in my career?

 

So my question; Does it help and do you (Production i.e. Tech & Stage Managers, Lighting Programmer, Production Electricians ect.) use it in your work(s) and how, if you do use it to your advantage and roles?

 

Please, I ask only experienced - meaning people who have worked with all types of performance and professional events (Theatre especially) answer back.

 

Thanks for your time

 

J

[paulears]

Johnathan, If you were studying acting, then I can understand this, but if you are doing production electrics, I fail to see why anyone in a support discipline would even need to know the first thing about how the piece has been constructed and presented. After all, you wouldn't expect an actor to understand photometrics or understand (or have even heard of) Ohm's law to stand in the light - would you?

 

Understanding dramaturgy won't help your career one jot! In the role of production electrician, your job is to realise the lighting designers plan. In many cases, the reasons for some things you will do may not be clear, and if you're the type of person who is intrigued by the reason for certain things, then you ask the designer, who will explain what s/he's trying to achieve - but again, I doubt many lighting designers pay much attention to the process the playright or author used to present the actual work?

 

In all my years of working in and around theatre, the first time I ever heard the term used was at a meeting with a university panel of scholars, when they were attempting to block some alterations in a course. Educationalists will speak of dramaturgy, and another old favourite pedagogy, often used in a similar way to bamboozle people who don't know.

 

There does seem to be a view nowadays in HE circles, that everyone should know everything, especially if it means studying subjects dear to the hearts of the tutors, irrespective of how much real use it is.

 

I suspect that you're finding the concept difficult because the link you are looking for isn't there. Knowing the history of the East India Company doesn't let you make a better cup of tea!

 

I think personally, that a technical discipline is difficult enough already without introducing material like this.

 

To answer how it will impact the field of electrics - I suppose if you conclude that dramaturgy requires successful communication of the actor's intention and character to the audience, then electrics could impact by providing illumination AND emotional support - BUT I'd suggest that this is the designers role, not that of production electrician - who may not have a clue what the show is about. I'm a philistine - I hate Shakespeare, and have produced some rather good lighting designs over the years, yet rarely have any interest in the words or even plots that others find so attractive. I would never expect any of the stage lx people to understand what is going on. It's nice when they do, but I don't think remotely important. As these people rarely see the entire production anyway - responding to a call, doing their bit and then going again - is it important they understand the construction technique the author/director/playright used?

[GRisdale]

There does seem to be a view nowadays in HE circles, that everyone should know everything, especially if it means studying subjects dear to the hearts of the tutors, irrespective of how much real use it is.

Nail clobberred squarely on the head (IMHO).

 

Gareth.

[Ben]

This is the main reason I left the course you are on now, I felt it was a lot of time and work going into things like that when I could be spending that time more productively on real shows.

[gareth]

It's basically a load of pointless self-indulgent w@nk, that won't help your career as a production electrician one bit. As Paul said, being able to make and enjoy a top-notch cup of tea isn't aided in the slightest by knowing what the tea-picker had for breakfast before going to work on the day they picked the leaves that made your brew.

 

I wish educational establishments teaching lighting and production electrics would place more emphasis on the things that are really relevant to what the students want to do for a living - like drawing a decent lighting plan, or designing realistic rigs for shows that are going to be touring into small venues, or ... well, you get the picture! :)

[Big Jay]

Thanks for the comments guys, I would really like to make it clear that I am not "slagging off" my course in any way, I am very happy with the way things are taught, it is just this one subject I am finding very difficult to understand, and as Paul says, It becuase I cannot find a link to my practice and this part of the course, I would be more than happy to sit and listen to an industry professional in my field and talk about Dramaturgy and how they bring it into their practice which would then mean there is a link, but there has not been 1 Production Professional who has come in to do the lectures, 9/10 it is a director, singers, producers ect. Which I am more than happy listening to and gaining their experiences but feel that those 2 hours have not helped me improve my practice, this being said, I am not given up hope that it will as im not one to give up, otherwise I wouldnt have pushed my self to make the big move to London in the first place.

 

Again, I am not unhappy with my course or the Uni at all so please do not hold this against them, It is just my persanol opinion and problem!!

[paulears]

It's fine - we didn't take it that you had a problem with the course. Some places make it very clear that they treat lighting (or sound) as an art, not a skill - so you get an 'arts' treatment. That's ok, if it's what they wish to do. I have a problem with this 'art' tag being attached to an area that very often is filled with anti-arts people. Look at lighting designers. Some have come from the production electrician side, others from the arts side. Their work is often very different, and I don't have a problem with either, and sometimes it's nice to see the different results they produce. However, you say you are doing a Degree in Production Electrics. I'm guessing but is this module on the list for everyone? It could just be a subject the people running the programme feel needs to be studied by everyone as a critical element for some, and perhaps just a curiosity for others? If so, I can see how they feel it will fit in. It could also be the one designed to test your non-straight line thinking? Technical people often get polarised - right/wrong, positive/negative - no grey areas. The fact you are struggling could be by design. They know it's an abstract concept and they're aware that the changes to your thought processes by working with such vague and often weird content is actually good for you!

 

In education, it's sometimes necessary to disguise the real reasons for content being included. There's always a reason - it's just that sometimes it's not obvious.

 

I'm with you - I'd absolutely hate this module. When I went back to education, to become a teacher, we also had plenty of modules that were like this. Everyone was pulling their hair out. I was older, and could look a little deeper at what was going on. The trick was that the module was really there to make teamwork critical between people who wouldn't usually work together. To get to the end, all students had to overcome problems, analyse how each other worked and then formulate achievable goals. I'm not suggesting yours is like this, but consider what it is that is holding you back from doing well? We've all told you that in our opinion, what you are being asked to do is pointless from a production elecs role, so what is it in the module that is the problem? I'd bet that this is the point - maybe the idea is not that you can do these things, but maybe that as you will have to work with people who think like this, maybe understanding where they come from could help you do your different job better and more effectively?

[WiLL]

Just in case you can be bothered:

 

'Dramaturgy is the art of dramatic composition and the representation of the main elements of drama on the stage. Some dramatists combine writing and dramaturgy when creating a drama. Others work with a specialist, called a dramaturg, to adapt a work for the stage.

 

Dramaturgy may also be defined, more broadly, as shaping a story into a form that may be acted. Dramaturgy gives the work or the performance a structure.'

(Excerpt from Wikipedia)

 

I studied Theatre Design and Scenography as a degree at Central St. Martins (and trust me an 'artier' theatre course you've never seen) and have now been working in professional theatre and education theatre for over ten years and I have to say this is the first time I have come across this word. I have worked with some designers and directors who would decorate their speech with the most florid and pompous words they knew to make themselves look clever and the fact that none of them ever used it in front of me can only really be explained by them not knowing it either.

So I have to say that the tone you struck with 'if you don't know this word, then don't reply to this thread' comes over as a bit arrogant to be frank.

This is a fllim-flam word which can easily be substituted for other words or phrases which are both more explanatory and useful. Although I appreciate it may prove useful in a game of scrabble.

 

..and it has no relevence to the role of production electrician whatsoever. I've worked as one, as well as a stage manager, lighting designer, crew chief, lampie and stage hand. And I have to say it's had no relevence to any of those roles either. If it comes close to any, it's that of Lighting Designer where you have to work with a certain artistic feather in your hat. But trust me, if I went around using words like dramaturgy backstage, all the other stage managers would poke fun at me and call me names.

[Just Some Bloke]

A few months ago the venue I work in had an email from a young lady who was training at a drama college on a post-graduate qualification and wanted some work experience so offered to come and help for nothing on one or more of our shows. She wanted to be a Dramaturg. As none of us had any idea at all what she would actually do if she came here, we politley declined her offer of a free member of staff. You have to bear in mind that we are required to make tens of thousands of pounds savings in the next financial year, on top of the tens of thousands we've had to make in the previous few years. When you're looking at whether you can get away with one fewer steward on some shows, whether you can buy cheaper ice creams and sell them for the same price, whether you can afford to put toilet cleaner down the loos every day etc. then there's absolutely no way on earth that anyone is going to get a job as a Dramaturg in any theatre in the UK that doesn't have a very large Arts Council grant.

 

Against that background we'd all be better off learning where to put full stops and commas to break a sentence up properly, rather than the details of something we may never come across in our working lives.

[Doug Siddons]

Well I've learnt a new word today! But I can't see what the difference is between a dramaturg(/ist?) and a director/producer. Surely if your putting on a production you have a clear idea of how you want to it to look and be without having to hire in an extra bod to tell you? But maybe its a sign of how affluent our society is that it can afford to think up a title for a useless role and pay someone to play it!

[w/robe]

So I have to say that the tone you struck with 'if you don't know this word, then don't reply to this thread' comes over as a bit arrogant to be frank.

I think he was just asking people who have experience of dramaturgy what their opinion was, you wouldn't expect people who had never heard of DMX to add to a thread about it.

 

There are 2 things to separate here 1 is dramaturgy and the other is the use of a Dramaturg.

 

I would say that the understanding of damaturgy would be useful to anyone with an input in to a production as understanding the rhythm and pace of the piece and how it is being presented will be helpful. Obviously the more artistic your input the more use it would be.

 

I've worked on a couple of pieces where a Dramaturg was involved, they have always been new writing. One that I particularly remember was a piece being adapted by the auther from her own novel where the Drematurg had a lot of input in to how the piece was presented and the rhythm and length of scenes etc, though to be honest nothing could have saved what was a dreadful piece they certainly did their best.

[Just Some Bloke]

I've worked on a couple of pieces where a Dramaturg was involved

 

Just out of interest, were these productions funded externally (e.g. by grant) or did they try to make money all on their own? If so did they succeed?

[Bobbsy]

Well, having done a drama course at university many MANY years ago, I came across the idea of a dramaturge back then--and have run into the idea once or twice (but pretty rarely) out in the pro world.

 

As others have said, it can all to easily turn into pointless self-indulgence. However, this isn't always the case. A couple of times I encountered a dramaturge who understood that drama is meant to be performed onstage and was able to provide background insight that could contribute to the design aspects of a show. I do sound, not lighting, but having a detailed description of life in a particular era has been useful in preparing sound effects and atmosphere loops. I'd guess that, from a lighting point of view, knowing that (for example) the rich had gas light but the poor used smoky tallow candles could sometimes help with designing the look of a show.

 

However, yeah, most times a dramaturge won't be much use to you.

 

Bob

[andy_s]

I've worked on a couple of pieces where a Dramaturg was involved

 

Just out of interest, were these productions funded externally (e.g. by grant) or did they try to make money all on their own? If so did they succeed?

Hi JSB, what's the relevance of this question? are you suggesting the Dramaturg was a waste of money and wouldn't have any relevance in the world of commercial theatre?

 

Though I doubt this is the example Mr Robe is thinking of, I imagine there was a fair amount of dramaturgy on War Horse when it was developed for the National, and this show is currently coining it in the West End.....so you could argue this might have been money well spent...and it was spent by the subsidised sector, so of course it wouldn't show up in the commercial manager's spreadsheets, but without it, the show may have been less succesful and therefore a less attractive commercial proposition.

 

back slightly more on topic, I am saddened ( a little) by the apparently general view that it's not necessary to have any interest in the product in order to work in theatre, and in interviews that I've conducted for technicians of any type or grade, I've always expected them to demonstrate some interest in what they were going to be working on, and to be able to demonstrate or talk about something they'd seen on stage that had got their juices going to some extent - granted this wouldn't necessarily be a top script or some really thrilling editing or scene juxtaposition, it could be a great lighting plot or soundscape, but am I naive in thinking that the excellence of the technical contribution (whether design, or installation, or operation) will be to some extent inspired by the product?

I'd think there is probably a strong case to be made that there is more time spent on this element of a technical course than is strictly necessary, and there should be more time and emphasis on practical aspects, the cynical side of me says "classroom time is cheap, stage time is expensive" and draws a certain conclusion. But I think that assuming the technical training is as complete as possible, (perhaps that's an assumption we shouldn't make?) there's a lot to be said for acquiring at least a basic understanding of how to make a play from both sides of the lighting desk....

 

However, I do understand that for some people electronics and lights and science is more exciting than plays and art, and I have no quarrel with that point of view...whatever floats your boat, so to speak.

[w/robe]

I've worked on a couple of pieces where a Dramaturg was involved

 

Just out of interest, were these productions funded externally (e.g. by grant) or did they try to make money all on their own? If so did they succeed?

 

I can not tell you if they made money (we get most of the gossip in Wardrobe but not all) but they certainly sold tickets, which is not always the same thing.

 

As for were they subsidised companies, as I said they were new writing what playwright of any note in the last 50+ years has learnt their craft in commercial theatre?