Cuing non stage lighting

[mns22]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for some advice about dimming some standard domestic lights. I'm going to have about 30+ of domestic bubs that I need to dim in sequences. I'm looking at using e:cue butler box or something similar to control the lights over a period of a month.

 

The problem I'm facing is that I'm not quite sure how to DMX 30+ channels of dimmers for a temporary installation, does anyone have any ideas? Is there an alternative to using several dimmer racks to control the lights?

 

Thanks,

[paulears]

From previous posts, I'm not sure how many of our members are into this kind of kit - much depends on what the installation based around. If it was us, we'd put a pile fo protable dimmers in, which all connect using DMX protocal using 5 (or annoyingly sometimes 3) pin XLR connectors, not RJ45s like on the kit you mention. The linked kit would suggest that as in our world, you just daisychain the dimmers together, apply power, set the base address of each one, and they work? I suspect we need a bit more info.

 

We don't do domest1c electrics, but this isn't really that - so we may be able to help, once we see exactly what it is you're doing, and what the problem is?

[mns22]

The kit I mentioned, e:cue, was only something I saw instead of using a mac mini, a usb to DMX converter and using something like the magic q to control the lights. I would prefer to use the magic q to control the set up.

 

I did think that a portable dimmer rack would be what I needed, are there any cost effective portable dimmer racks out there?

 

The setup will probably consist of around 30 - 60 fluorescent tubes, each needing to be controlled, the problem is that we we prefer to domestic lights to cut the costs so I wasn't sure how to set a base address to each one.

[paulears]

You've got confused here - 5 6 way dimmer packs hooked up to magic-q would work fine, but the word 'fluorescent' worries me. You do know that bog standard flu fittings cannot be dimmed. You can get dimmable flu fittings, but they are not cheap. You can also buy proper flu lighting products with on board DMX, or just use ordinary lamps plugged into the individual dimmer channels.

 

Each dimmer gets it's address set with either small switches, pushbuttons or a knob! First dimmer pack (assuming a 6 ch one) is set to 1, the next pack to 7, the next one to 13 and onwards. Be aware though, that some dimmer packs don't like dimming low wattage lamps. These packs, if you hire them in, often have large mains connectors, because they'll be rated to much more than you'll be using, so some kind of distribution system will be needed too.

[mns22]

Sorry for getting you confused.

 

This sounds like a lot of kit for a small installation - It's for a small gallery. Do you have any advice for cheap DMX'able 'tube'/flu lighting that I can hang? This might be the easier option. I was looking at some tube lighting, each one costs about £70-£80, but I wasn't sure if it could be controlled by DMX.

 

I'm worried about using too many dimmer racks as I'm unsure about the space that I will have available.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

[Tomo]

For a run of a month, it is likely to be more cost-effective to hire the equipment.

 

Given your own lack of experience, the best idea is probably to hire somebody to provide the system (lanterns, distribution, dimmers and controller), install and program it.

 

Then you can be sure that what you're getting will work, and that it'll do what you're after.

 

Finally - There is no such thing as a cheap dimmable fluorescent.

Standard ones simply don't dim at all - they dim a bit, then they flicker horribly and eventually go out. On the upfade, it's even worse!

[mns22]

Thanks for the advice Tomo but hiring in a company isn't really an option and I'm pretty sure I can program some lights using magic-q. It is more of the installation that is getting me. I'm surprised that there isn't a fitting out there that can be DMX'd, I've found some led tube lights which I thought should would and won't have the fade problem.

 

paulears, You mentioned dimmable fittings, where would be able to get these from?

[paulears]

Local electrical wholesalers can get you simple dimmable ballasts that work on conventional dimmers, but if you want to do away with the dimmers and dim the flus directly from DMX, then have a look at SpecialZ.

 

This isn't going to be cheap, and for a short run project, hiring will be cheaper - the resale value of the kit will be 'limited'. Hiring a DMX dimmable single fitting might well cost you £25 a week - so you could get a shock when you find out the buying prices!

[mns22]

Thanks for all the information. I'll have a look into hiring the kit as well, I did see a DMX dimmable single fitting for £25 to own as well.

 

Thanks again.

[Roderick]

I believe there is room for a little explanation on how DMX works with light fittings. Reading through the thread I get the impression MNS22 may have the wrong concept.

 

In a normal situation where you may want to dim a few incandescent lamps, DMX doesn't control the actual fitting but the dimmer where the fitting is plugged into.

Say you wanted to make a desklamp dimmable, you would plug the desklamp into a dimmer pack, you then address the DMX on the dimmer pack to allow your lighting desk, laptop, whatever controller to control those dimmers. So if you have a dimmer pack with 6 channels and you set the DMX address to "1" then they become dimmers 1 - 6 on your controller.

On the other hand you have DMX fixtures such as moving lights or LED fixtures that don't need dimmers and have build-in DMX receivers that control the functions of the fixture. It is extremely unlikely to find a DMX input on a domestic fixture.

 

As for 25pound fixtures, probably from eBay, be very careful. If you don't have experience with DMX or control systems, I fear that many unkind words may be spoken trying to get them to work, and then more unkind words once they work and you see the actual light output. It would embarrass a Christmas tree.

[Guest lightnix]

I'm siding with those who say "Hire!". No disrespect, mns22; but from reading through your few posts, it's plain that you do not currently have the necessary level of technical knowledge, ability or experience* to plan and execute this installation B-)

 

Contact a local lighting hire company and explain to them what you want. They'll spec a system to meet your needs and supply somebody to go with it, who'll have it up and running in two shakes of a lamb's tail, compared to the time it'll probably take you to do it.

 

It really will be the most cost effective way to light this project.

 

Good luck and welcome to the Blue Room :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

*despite calling yourself a "freelancer" in your profile - tsk tsk!

[back_ache]

30 - 60 fluorescent tubes, each needing to be controlled, the problem is that we we prefer to domestic lights to cut the costs so I wasn't sure how to set a base address to each one.

 

I don't think you will save money by using florescent.

 

To control fluorescents there are three main protocols, 1-10v, DSI and DALI.

 

Whilst normal DALI has the simplest cabling, (a daisy chain similar to DMX) I would not recommend it, first because the whole thing *has* to be set up by a specialist (it requires special software, knowledge and a lot of patience) and compared to DMX is very slow, if you told all you lights to go to zero your can visibly see each one receive its message.

 

 

1-10 is easy to get your head around, you just use an ordinary DMX demux and run a wire from each channel of the demux to the ballast, but, 1-10 cannot take a light to zero just to its minimum brightness (roughly 10-15%) so you have to cut the power to turn it off, you will also find find the dimming curve does not match human perception eg 50% doesn't look like half the light

 

your best bet is DSI, it can turn of a light after you drop it below minimum brightness, it has a built in dimmer curve and is digital.

 

DSI ballasts can be bought from all good wholesalers and the only specialist piece of kit you will need is a number of DMX to DSI converters

 

see our wiki for more info http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Fluorescent

[dbuckley]

see our wiki for more info http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Fluorescent

Indeed there is......

 

1-10 is easy to get your head around, you just use an ordinary DMX demux and run a wire from each channel of the demux

Including a warning to not do exactly this - 10V fluoro ballasts do not generally have their inputs isolated from the mains connections, so some serious smoke escapage from the demux (or worse) upstream of the demux, like your Hog3 / pearl / PC can be expected!

 

Zero88 helpfully make a 10V fluoro specific version of the Chilli dimmer for exactly this purpose. (Edited to note that the purpose mentioned is dimming fluoros, not early life termination of electronics!)

 

Also, Artistic Licence make DMX to DSI / DALI converters.

[mns22]

Thanks everyone.

 

back_ache, dbuckley - that's what I needed to know. Thank you. I've seen flu lighting being turned on & off quickly, which is what is needed.

 

I'll look into the Z88 Chilli dimmers and the DSI ballasts. I agree with you on the cost, I think flu tubes will end up being more expensive than proper show lights. I had a look at the pulsar lights but after looking at the pricing they seemed to be out of budget.

[Guest lightnix]

What is your budget, just out of interest?