What karabiner to buy

[spinmaster1]

Hi All,

 

I am looking to buy a karabiner for use on the end of a rope which will be used for hauling up lanterns to our rig. I need to know if there ares ones specifically designed for this purpose or can I just use a fall arrest/work positioning one. Apologies if this sounds stupid, but I don't want to be held responsible after an accident due to wrong equipment.

 

Thanks in advance,

Rob.

[billy bobinski]

Any climbing ones will do, as long as they are marked with a Kn rating. Recommend screwgate locking and ally for weight or steel for longevity. I trust them with my life, so I don't think you'll have any H & S issues with them, as long as your'e not using them for permanent rigging

[oli]

Also remember that the kit should be appropriately inspected before every use etc and if dropped even a metre should be destroyed (I enjoy watching riggers smash them up)

[robloxley]

Both the rope and karabiner come under the scope of LOLER and as such points on marking, inspection/thorough examination, record keeping etc.

[Seano]

I am looking to buy a karabiner for use on the end of a rope which will be used for hauling up lanterns to our rig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabiner

 

A clove hitch is much better, but if you must use a carabiner you'll be wanting a locking carabiner with a wide opening gate to accomadate the yoke of a lantern.

Those larger ones are called 'HMS carabiners' (they were originally used to belay with an Italian hitch and needed to be bigger to accomodate several turns of rope - 'HMS' is an abbreviation of the German name for an Italian hitch). DMM 'Boa' for example.

 

In my opinion, you should always use an aluminium carabiner on the end of a line for hauling purposes. Steel is stronger and harder wearing but aluminium is plenty strong enough. Its a moot point when you're not working very high, but in arena rigging (say) its easy for a careless grounder to set it swinging and the extra weight of a steel krab makes that potentially dangerous for anyone else in the area.

 

..and if dropped even a metre should be destroyed (I enjoy watching idiots smash them up)

(I've corrected that quote for you.) Yes, they should be retired after a major shock. But after being dropped on the floor? Utter rubbish.

[robloxley]

I am looking to buy a karabiner for use on the end of a rope which will be used for hauling up lanterns to our rig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabiner

 

A clove hitch is much better

Out of interest, why?

[jacet]

I am looking to buy a karabiner for use on the end of a rope which will be used for hauling up lanterns to our rig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabiner

 

A clove hitch is much better

Out of interest, why?

 

While a carabiner is a quick and strong form of connector I find them to be quite awkward and a bit of a PITA when hauling fixtures etc. Unless you get one with a really wide gate you're not going to be able to easily fit it around anything load-bearing on a fixture. In addition to this, if they aren't attached properly the awkward / uneven shape of the fixtures can end up applying pressure on the gates, potentially damaging the crab or causing them to open.

In contrast sticking with a good 'ol fashioned bowline through an appropriate gap in the fixture can be just as fast to connect (with a bit of practice) and keeps it simple. In any system (especially a hauling line etc) minimising the number of components reduces the number of parts that can fail making it safer and simpler (and easier to maintain).

At the end of the day it is down to preference and whatever you find easiest and safest is the way you should go. If you do get a crab just make sure you get a rated one with a locking gate and not one that's just for use as a keyring. Off the top of my head I think it's EN362 that it should conform to (though that's probably worth checking).

 

Hope that helps

jacet

[Seano]

A clove hitch is much better

Out of interest, why?

 

A few reasons -

 

As already mentioned, even a large pear-shaped (HMS) carabiner may not actually fit around the yoke of a lantern terribly well.

 

When it does fit, there's very little friction so it'll slide - with most lanterns that means it'll end up in the 'corner' of the yoke with the lantern hanging at an angle. When the lantern arrives aloft it'll need to be lifted into position, which isn't ideal and since the carabiner can slide so easily there's a possibility of some finger trappage. A clove hitch tied snugly right next to the hook-clamp (on whatever) will stay there.

 

It uses up 4 or 5 inches of headroom that, again, may make the difference between the person up top needing to lift the lantern that last little bit and not. If the units aren't particularly heavy that may not be an issue, then again it could be - especially if you're rigging a whole lot of them.

 

And finally, its a style thing for me - why use a bit of gear that you don't need to? If the person on the floor can't tie a clove-hitch correctly, that's just not good enough, its one of the basic skills of the job. B-)

 

None of this carries the weight of absolute dogma for me btw. I'm not saying you must not use a carabiner or anything, just that its a little bit, y'know, 'better' if you dont have to.

Incidentally, its also better if the person on the floor thinks it through and makes it as easy as possible to get the lantern onto the bar for the person up top - clamps being the 'right' way round, wingbolts, nuts etc., being appropriately slackened off - that kind of stuff. Bleedin obvious, right? (And yet, strangely unusual.) ;)