noiseboy11 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hi Recently bought a Road Hog Full Boar and want copy cue 2 to cue 4 with out cue 3 tracking into the new cue 4. I have successful done this by using the live touch but surly there is a simpler way of copying a cue in a theatre stack. The manual suggest using a block cue but I am not to familiar with how this works. All I wanna do is copy a cue and disable the tracking! If anyone has a good/simple/quick way to do this please HELP!!! Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Easy. So all you want to do is stop the cue from tracking forwards - correct? If so, when you press [record], the record options toolbar appears on the primary touch screen. Just deselect "forward" and that then stops the changes from tracking forward in the cuelist. However, be sure to re-enable it. Alternativly, you could record a block cue, like the manual suggests, you can do this by pressing "state" which also appears on the record options toolbar. Hope this helps ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy11 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Easy. So all you want to do is stop the cue from tracking forwards - correct? If so, when you press [record], the record options toolbar appears on the primary touch screen. Just deselect "forward" and that then stops the changes from tracking forward in the cuelist. However, be sure to re-enable it. Alternativly, you could record a block cue, like the manual suggests, you can do this by pressing "state" which also appears on the record options toolbar. Hope this helps ;) Joe Not as easy as this. As you know Directors are not always this planned. If I program a cue I presume I want to track forward until the director says, "the next cue is a copy of cue x' This is where my problem starts, I can copy and press the state button but this does't stop the previous cue I have already programmed tracking forward. I need to investigate the block cue effort as the manual does not highlight which cue you need to block. Ie the cue before the copy, the cue you are copying or the cue you have copied. Even then will the cue I previously programmed track forward??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 You could always copy cue 3 to cue 3 and tell the console to replace it, then when doing this you can set track forward to off. Then make cue 4 a block cue using the state button. Does that solve the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of lx dad Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If memory serves correctly and I am understanding you on a Hog II (which I accept is not the console in question) what I could do is, run Q2 then press 'active' + 'enter' this brings all info of fixtures in use and not in use into the programmer which you could then record as Q4. This is also effectively a block Q as well, because you are bringing the non active values at 0 into the programmer this should take out anything you added in Q3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hi Recently bought a Road Hog Full Boar and want copy cue 2 to cue 4 with out cue 3 tracking into the new cue 4. I have successful done this by using the live touch but surly there is a simpler way of copying a cue in a theatre stack. The manual suggest using a block cue but I am not to familiar with how this works. All I wanna do is copy a cue and disable the tracking! If anyone has a good/simple/quick way to do this please HELP!!! Regards Dave You need to have cue 1 as a blocking cue. At the moment I suspect you have parameters in cue 3 that are not in any previous cue. In cue 1 and cue 2 they are simply sitting at their default value i.e. open gobo, intensity at 0% or shutter open. You should make an open white pallette, that is with all beam parameters (gobo, effects, prism, colour, shutter etc) in open. When you start a cue list, your first cue should have all fixtures in this pallette with intensity at 0%, then build your cue on top of this.This means that the cuelist knows what value every parameter should be at rather than just ignoring them.Now when you enter "cue 2 copy state cue 4", cue 4 will contain ALL the information needed to recreate your look. Another way to make your cue 1 a blocking cue is to play it, then "touch" all your fixtures, then merge back into cue 1. This will put raw DMX into every parameter for that cue, having the same effect as the o/w pallette method, but raw DMX is never a good idea, much better to have everything in a pallette. Don't turn off tracking, it is your friend, you just need to wrap your head around how it works. Hope that makes sense! :/ Leggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy11 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Gents Here is the way that was suggested to me and seems a sensible way of working once you get into some serious programming. Program cue's 1-3, then to copy cue 1 as cue 4 without cue 3 tracking!! Cue 3 live on the playback fader. LIVE TOUCH @ 0 GOTO CUE 1 LIVE TOUCH RECORD choose list where u want to record it to or type LIST x CUE 4 ENTER. Before chosen the cue you want to copy and have touched it you can also add/ edit here then carry on the process which will create cue 4 without cue 3 tracking. So now I have done that with no help from the manual!!!!!! I have put a mark cue on my movers and it does not appear to trigger the mark because the movers have not been used in any previous cues. Therefore the only way round this is to create a manual mark cue which fix the problem for the rest of the cue stack. Anyone else come across this problem. The manual states that there has to be values in the stack for a mark step to work but I can see why the desk would not automatically put 0 values in the cue before so the programmer does not have to waste time doing updating the previous step with the the mover info in it. A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. PS thanks to you all for replying. Am trying to keep the faith with tracking but as this is my first tracking desk its tough going but am managing to stick with it. Regards Noiseboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Actually not so sensible ;) It doesn't create a blocking cue, meaning you may end facing the same issues again later with a different cue, and because you are using "touch " you are recording raw DMX into your cues, making later updating a royal pain in the a@*e. The o/w pallette method I described earlier is simply good programming practise, a habit worth forming! Leggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy11 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Actually not so sensible ;) It doesn't create a blocking cue, meaning you may end facing the same issues again later with a different cue, and because you are using "touch " you are recording raw DMX into your cues, making later updating a royal pain in the a@*e. The o/w pallette method I described earlier is simply good programming practise, a habit worth forming! Leggy. Leggy I now understand and have proven the method and can see your point about the updating. This just seems a long process and if your unfamiliar with a rig can lead to minor missed fixtures/attributes. Maybe I am just not seeing the benefits of tracking yet as everything I seem to be doing is defeating problems with tracking and trying to making the desk more like a none tracking desk! Although you method does solve the mark cue problem I described earlier. Interested to hear you thought on this? Thanks for all your help am loving the challenges the desk is throwing at me but just wish the manual was a little more descriptive with what the different methods are used for. Regards Noiseboy11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy11 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Leggy Actually my earlier attempt does work. When making updates/merg you just turn the forward button off and this will solve any tracking issues making editing/updating fairly easy and quick. Regards Noiseboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 The key when working with a tracking console is to decide where and when to block (and assert). In the most basic (single-cuelist) state, tracking more or less means "Only update stuff that has changed"(This is a gross simplification, but wth) Thus, if you record something in a position, it stays there until you tell it otherwise. If you think about it, everything else in theatre is actually tracking - set pieces go to their marks and stay there until somebody moves them, flown pieces stay out until brought in (and vice versa) etc. This is really useful in scene-based shows - you set the lighting in the first cue of that scene, and everything stays 'as-is' unless you specifically change it.Thus if the initial state needs updating, you update it in one place and it automatically 'tracks' forward through the whole scene. There are two places this can bite you:1) You make a change that should only be for this scene and not continue into the next.- Hence Block Cues, which block the tracking. You'll normally block blackouts and scene changes, but there are often other places where full or partial blocks are useful depending on the show.2) You make a change that should be for this Cue Only.- Hence Cue Only update modes, which copy the relevant bits of the previous cue state into the next cue, preventing tracking. Consoles may have different names for these two functions, but all tracking consoles have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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