safety harnesses

[SparkySteve]

Arguably, if you are self-employed, you should be providing your own inertia reel as well as the harness.

Not sure I would agree with you here 'Nix. Ok as a freelancer I am responsible for my personal safety equipment but I think in this situation there is an exception. Becasue of the time difference between when the inertia is rigged and the spot actually being used we aren't asked to provide our own. Also, rembember that the riggers normally use the same truss ladders so it's therefore easier to rig them on the truss when it is on the deck than calling the freelancer 5 hours earlier than neccassary to install his/her inertia when the riggers are still around.

[colinmonk]

and on the same point, if you had to rig your own inertia reel on a truss thats already been flown, and saftied, and the riggers have gone home, what are you going to clip onto when you climb up there to put in your inertia reel at the top of that ladder your have to climb when you go to spot?

[Pete McCrea]

Usually the inertia reel will be supplied and rigged at the time the rest of the system is flown, and in my experience is supplied by the lighting and/or rigging supplier. This means that the follow spot op should just be able to arrive, clip on and climb. One or two of the riggers I know would possibly climb the ladder using a double lanyard, and move the clips up the ladder as they climb it if there isn't an inertia reel available.

 

As usual if you're unsure then don't do it until you have the training. Also be aware that if you own a harness it will require inspection every 6th months, under the appropriate regulations, along with the rest of your climbing/safety gear. I was imformed of this only a few months ago while doing a rigging appreciation course with Pete Smith from Bridgehouse/Tomcat. Which means that my harness is due for a check soon..........

[Ike]

One or two of the riggers I know would possibly climb the ladder using a double lanyard, and move the clips up the ladder as they climb it if there isn't an inertia reel available.

Bear in mind that the BREAKING strain of each rung aint going to be much more than a kN or two!

[Pete McCrea]

The same thought ran through my head. It's more a 'if there is no other option' as opposed to a 'Best Practice Method'.

 

Give me an inertia reel. Allows you to keep both hands on the ladder, and makes for a safer system of work.

[Chris Higgs]

All this PPE stuff is a bit worrying.

1. Are you actually self employed? I bet many reading this think they are because of their tax status. H&S law takes little notice of taxation, more of who is responsible for controlling people at work.

2. Can you demonstrate your training in use of the PPE? This would last at least one or two days, possibly a week depending on task and environment. This training would apply to employees or the self employed. This would apply to any PPE incidentally, from safety boots to breathing apparatus.

3. If you are an employee, PPE of the right kind must be provided (FOC) by the employer, training must be given and the employee must use the PPE as trained.

4. Most inertia reels should be above the user at all times. Therefore using them on trusses (another story in itself) is not often a good idea since the period of greatest risk is in getting from the ladder onto the truss, when you may be above the inertia reel. Also read the reel manufacturer's requirement for anchor strength, often in excess of 10 kn. There other ways of providing fall arrest for wire ladders.

5. No-one in their right mind would use a wire rope ladder to clip onto with a fall arrest lanyard. The poster should be ashamed for writing that.

6. The 'facts' expressed demonstrate clearly the lack of knowledge that people have or they would not offer this advice, some of which is downright dangerous.

Hopefully the majority will not have a fall, but if you do, you need to be 100% sure that the kit will work as designed, otherwise you may as well not bother to use it. Legally, using it incorrectly it is the same as not using it in the first place.

7. Buying PPE as an employee means that the employer needs to check that the PPE meets his standards. Operators of venues need to be aware they have a duty of care in this regard.

8. PPE should be checked in accordance with manufacturer's instructions by a competent person. Many items of PPE are generic, but not all. The more sophisticated, the more au fait the inspector should be. Bear in mind that the inspection should be recorded.

9. Harnesses used for work positioning (where the persons weight is carried by the harness) etc. need to be inspected in compliance with LOLER.

PPE is covered by the PPE Regulations.

10. Obviously if I mention training, it will be assumed that I am advertising.

However, just being issued with or buying a harness is not enough and certainly not 'legal' since there is more to a safe system of work than that.

Training is necessary to work with height PPE safely, not least to be aware that you have a duty to consider the risks in the work. One of the checks would be to ensure there is a practicable rescue plan in place before even putting a harness on. When the Work at Height Regs come out later this year, the definition of competence will probably include this.

More seriously scary Blue Room stuff.................(see also the Tallescope thread!)

[trussmonkey]

here here chris,

 

I know people have expressed their dislike to the 'doom and gloom' merchants on this forum but I cant help but think that we are needed. with more and more topics like this one and the tallescope thread being posted I find myself shaking my head and despairing for some of our forum colleagues. I am alarmed at the lack of some peoples knowledge and common sense. ok I know that some of the topic posters are from amateurs and those in our wonderful education system. im more concerned with the replies to said posts from those of us who consider ourselves to be professionals.

in this day and age training is a must. you would not expect to get on a horse and be able to ride in the grand national. so why would you expect to be able to climb a truss and focus lights assuming that just because you have a harness on you are safe. the old saying is true

 

' a little bit of knowledge is very dangerous'

 

 

if anyone is in doubt as to where to get trained I can vouch for the courses provided by chris higgs. the 3 day rigging course I attened a number of years ago was first class. in addition I would recommend that everyone has at least a basic understanding of LOLER, PPE regs, and PUWER

 

sorry for another moan

 

 

p.s.can I just say that it is not the responsibility of individuals to supply their own inertia reels/ fall arresters. the should be supplied but the employer or hire company as standard.

[Ike]

I know people have expressed their dislike to the 'doom and gloom' merchants on this forum

yup. if you have something interesting or informative to say then say it, if not then stay the f**k away from the keyboard!

 

I'm not specifically aiming this at any members in particular but feel it has now got to the stage where I should take a break from the forum

 

bye for now

 

ike

[Chris Higgs]

I know people have expressed their dislike to the 'doom and gloom' merchants on this forum

yup. if you have something interesting or informative to say then say it, if not then stay the f**k away from the keyboard!

 

I'm not specifically aiming this at any members in particular but feel it has now got to the stage where I should take a break from the forum

 

bye for now

 

ike

So it's cards on the table time!!

Until people's staying power improves, standards won't.

We need to keep up the pressure, a bit like supervising kids.

When one checks the member 'stats' and sees the age and experience of people posting, it's no wonder.

IMHO many of the most vociferous are often apparently the least likely to have the experience to offer advice. (Opinions - fine, but that's all they can be). 16-20 year olds, sorry, but enthusiasm is not enough.

This is serious stuff.

That means they can only be repeating what they have been heard but not been able to test. That really is scary.

What these guys forget is that the word of mouth way my generation learned spanned a good many years.

It's taken me 30 years of day to day rigging, working at height, inspection and maintenance to feel I have a valid point to make, and that's only because I am becoming worried that so many people are using (motors particularly) kit they can't have been trained to use.

In answer to Ike's supposition, I firmly believe there to be only 100 or so riggers in the UK that would be found to be competent in fact, particularly with regard to work at height.

Admittedly, it depends on your definition of rigger and of competent.

 

Apologies to the quiet ones.

[paulears]

Chris is 100% correct in what he says. H&S is a fact of life nowadays and is everyones responsibility. In what I do, I consider myself competent. This does not mean I know everything. In fact, I'm quite happy to own up to ignorance in many things - that's what competence is all about - Knowing limits.

 

When I don't know something, I tend to shut up and listen to others who know better. I've learned quite a bit that way. It does seem that some people on the forum speak with a little more authority than their experience allows. In most of the forum areas this doesn't really matter, but in the safety section it is VERY dangerous because inexperienced people take what is written here as gospel, and base their working practices on it. I've been rigging in my own area for a long time. I have NEVER EVER used an inertia reel. I've seen plenty in use, but I have never done it myself. I wouldn't dream of commenting on them.

 

We have some very lucky younger members who get to use state of the art equipment at school every day, are in charge of large numbers of people and have responsibility for the safety and use of all their equipment. It's rather sad that in East Anglia where I work. I have to visit schools (like yesterday) who still have patt 123's and 23's and are re-lamped by the caretaker from zip up when all the students have gone home. focussing is done by the drama and science teacher who are paranoid that their students will sue them if they let them lift a foot off the floor.

 

Experience is a bit like sex - by the time you have enough, you're too old!