Pro Tools Mixing Console Setup

[ainsley_clark]

Hi there,

I am wanting to invest in a mixing desk (24 channel) which has direct outs with 24 mic/line inputs. I have looked into the Behringer MX9000 (yes I know its behringer!!). However I have read some revies that its PSU is a bit funny and tends to over heat, which is why they decided to discontinue the desk and remake it to exactly the same spec but with a kettle lead as its power. It looks like a nice desk because I can have the line outs going into 'B' input, flip it and do a rough monitor mix. Is there a alternative thats realatriely cheap? Any ideas?

Seconldy I was wondering if you guys could shed some light into M Audio interfaces. As I have buying a 24 direct desk with 24 I/o I would need the same for my sound card. I have been looking into the Fast Track Ultra 8R times by 3, with 8 in and 8 out. However if I have 3 sound cards will it lag on my computer? Will the audio glitch etc... I also also looking into its firewire brother the Profire 2626. It says it has 26 I/o but only has 8i/o via analog. Where do the other inputs and outputs come from? Optical, how would this work?

Any help would be greatley appricated.

Thankyou...

[tolley1466]

I can't really comment on the interface but instead of having an analogue desk why not go for a digital one? There are some Yamaha 02Rs around for about the same price as a Behringer MX9000. Once you've learnt your way around the desk its very easy to use!

[ainsley_clark]

I am an analog man, always have beel always will be. I just dont see the point of buying a digital desk because effectivly you have 2, 1 internally and one as the desk.

[Killyp]

:unsure: what?

 

A digital desk gives you far more flexibility than it's analog counterpart and usually sounds every bit as good, often better.

[Shez]

I also also looking into its firewire brother the Profire 2626. It says it has 26 I/o but only has 8i/o via analog. Where do the other inputs and outputs come from? Optical, how would this work?

 

The other ins and outs are indeed digital - a combination of ADAT (eight channels over an optical cable) and S/PDIF (two channels over a coax cable.

 

Have a look at the MOTU 24I/O - it's a 24 in, 24 out interface that should do the trick.

[ainsley_clark]

That motu looks sweet but as it is not compatible with pro tools I could not use the I/O's with it. Any other suggestions?

[Shez]

To work with pro tools you'll need either a compatible M-audio interface (a list is here) or some of their own hardware (which is not exactly cheap if you're looking for 24 in & out).

[Bobbsy]

I am an analog man, always have beel always will be. I just dont see the point of buying a digital desk because effectivly you have 2, 1 internally and one as the desk.

 

 

....and I thought the youth of today were supposed to be flexible and technologically savvy!

 

Seriously, turning your argument back on you, I don't see the point of hanging dodgy mic preamps like the Behringer ones on the front end of the expensive interface you'll have to buy to use Protools. Frankly, if Tolley is right about seeing 02Rs around int he Behringer price bracket (I'm not up on the second hand market) then that's the route I'd go, equipping it with MY8AT/MY16AT interfaces then using a simple M-Audio Profire Lightbridge to input the ADAT into the computer. FYI, this is the setup I have in my home studio, except for substituting a DM1000 as the mixer.

 

Using layers, you could also work this system with an 01V.

 

As for the performance of the computer, it depends on your processor spec, disc speed and RAM. My Core 2 Duo can handle recording and basic playback but can start to suffer if I use too many real time effects during the mix.

 

Bob

[DangerousMark]

Just out of curiosity Bobbsy, how many channels at once is that PC handling?

(trying to guage how much more inefficient software has got these days having started my main audio tinkering with a DX2/66 that handled CD quality direct to disc recording with ease :unsure: ... guess it may get a little trickier with 16 of them + FX though, even with the equivalent of 4000+ Mhz available)

[Bobbsy]

Well, my setup can fairly easily handle recording 32 channels at once (via the ADAT/Firewire setup I've mentioned). I can also playback 32 at a time. However, performance falls rapidly when I add effects to the mix--I can't give a meaningful number because it it heavily dependent on exactly what effects I'm using.

 

FYI, I'm using Audiition, not Protools, for this--and there are some tricks (locking tracks for example) that get around this problem.

 

Bob

[jamesperrett]

also also looking into its firewire brother the Profire 2626. It says it has 26 I/o but only has 8i/o via analog. Where do the other inputs and outputs come from? Optical, how would this work?

Any help would be greatley appricated.

Thankyou...

 

If you are happy with Behringer preamps then you might want to look at buying an M-Audio Profire Lightbridge with

a bunch of Behringer ADA8000 microphone amps and digital convertors. You can use up to 4 ADA8000's with one Lightbridge to give up to 32 channels of input and 32 channels of outputs. One thing to remember is that the budget versions of Protools have a limited number of inputs and outputs so may not support this many channels.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[mervaka]

I think 32 is the maximum for MP/LE?

[ainsley_clark]

Thanks for the ideas people.

That sounds like a good idea james perrett. Im just not very hot on behringer convertors much prefer the looks of a motu, however wayy to expensive. Any other ideas?

Im just grabbing onto the idea of analg and digital etc. I have a question. For pro tools HD it has digitial outs. I have been into a few studios that connect these digital outs to an analog desk without the use of convertors.

How does this work???

[Bobbsy]

Thanks for the ideas people.

That sounds like a good idea james perrett. Im just not very hot on behringer convertors much prefer the looks of a motu, however wayy to expensive. Any other ideas?

 

But if you stick a Behringer analogue desk on the input/output of your MOTU, you'll be using the same preamps anyway. The mic preamps will have a much bigger effect on the sound than the AD/DA conversion. James Perrett's suggestion would achieve exactly the same for less money. FYI, the Behringer ADA8000s aren't bad units....I have 4 of them I use for live work and the only way I'd fault them is that the mic preamps get a bit noisy when pushed hard but are fine at "normal" levels. FYI, if you're dead set against the ADA8000s (though, since you're considering a Behringer desk I don't know why) there's an RME microphone to ADAT box--but it's not cheap.

 

Im just grabbing onto the idea of analg and digital etc. I have a question. For pro tools HD it has digitial outs. I have been into a few studios that connect these digital outs to an analog desk without the use of convertors.

How does this work???

 

Simple answer is they don't. There will be a D to A convertor someplace. If not an external box, there are some analogue desks that have USB or Firewire connections built in but there's still a convertor--check out Mackie, A&H and Behringer offerings for this. However, do watch as many of these only do simple stereo, not multitrack.

 

Just an aside, but are you dead set on Protools? Unless you have to use it for compatability or something, there are less expensive options out there that would give you greater flexibility on hardware. (I speak as one who spent years using Protools stuff at work--but chose Audition for my own system because I much prefer the interface and feature set.)

 

Bob

[DangerousMark]

Seems reasonable enough then - 32x 66Mhz = 2.13Ghz (and I would guess, (2.13 / (44.1 x 16)) x (48 x 24)) = 3.5Ghz...), and though the soundcard will handle some of the load and MMX/SSE can do some SIMD acceleration on it, you're still mostly dealing with 16bit (or 24bit, fit into a 32bit space?) integer data so the effective processing efficiency won't be more than 2-3x faster per clock than the old 486 architecture. Plus you have to shove it up and down the bus, which although only a few megs per sec constant is still extra load and delay.

 

(OK, the stuff I recorded on the 486 was stereo, and those 32 tracks are likely to be mono, so that backs it off more to 1.75Ghz - but that's still a smidge more than my P4M-740 laptop peaks at... make it 34tr for the stereo downmix and it's at 1.85 threatening my workplace economy desktop mule's CPU)

 

And that's only running some simple single SIMD transform effect on each channel, without getting into 96khz sampling or floating point precision. I begin to see the scope of the problem now :)