To DI or not to DI?

[JamesC]

My 15 year old electric guitar will be going into semi retirement as I bought myself a Crafter AGE-500 electro acoustic at the weekend.

 

I pretty much always use my Line 6 amp but once or twice a year I go through a Behringer GI100 Ultra-G DI box straight into the mixer.

 

The new guitar has an XLR socket but I can't see much information about it. So my question is: In this situation should I still go out on a jack into the DI box or use the XLR on the guitar? Does anyone know if the XLR socket has a balanced signal on it or if it is just provided for 'convenience'? The shop owner just said it was an output for recording in a studio!?

 

Obviously the best option would be to try out both and see which is best but there won't be time. The event I'm thinking of consists of a brief acoustic rehearsal in a different location and then we're straight in, plug in and away we go.

 

I'm sure I'll experiment at home over the next couple of weeks but I won't be able to replicate the equipment and conditions exactly.

 

My instinct is to stick with the DI box, but if anyone has any experience I'd be interested to hear it.

 

Thanks,

 

James

[johndenim]

If your guitar has an XLR out then I'd say it was balanced.

As it is a semi with a preamp and EQ even with a standard jack I'd still not bother with a DI.

 

My crafter semi has the afore mentioned and I don't use a DI, I have tried both and its OK without.

[Dodgecaliber]

It's not too common to see a guitar with an XLR connection.

 

The XLR is there for a balanced output (Versus Jack which is unbalanced) hence why that suits better for recording.

 

If your using it for live sound, I personally like to DI the amp and mic it at the same time.

 

 

once or twice a year I go through a Behringer GI100 Ultra-G DI box straight into the mixer.

 

Apologies if im missing the point here, but I get the impression that you were talking about sending the guitar straight into the desk?

 

If this is the case, it will work, however you will loose a lot of the signal frequencys and it won't sound as good (I can't be bothered going into detail about signals and freq's but a guitar amp exists for a reason)

[Rob_Beech]

I can't be bothered to talk about it being application dependant ; remind John that it's likely a longer cable run and as such balanced is very important ; ask if its mic level balanced or line level balanced ; ask whether or not you can be bothered to try them both out.

 

I can't be bothered to wr......

[Charlie Jeal]

If this is the case, it will work, however you will loose a lot of the signal frequencys and it won't sound as good (I can't be bothered going into detail about signals and freq's but a guitar amp exists for a reason)

 

 

You are so wrong about this that it's just not funny. Guitar amp drivers are voiced in a particular way that makes them fairly inefficient speakers but very good filters, so when you use a DI that doesn't have any sort of speaker emulation built in you actually get a signal with a much broader spectral balance which is why when an electric guitar is put through a DI it can sound very "fizzy" and that is the reason for guitar amps. Yes they exist to make a guitar sound good but not in the way you seem to think.

 

Charlie

[timtheenchanteruk]

for the size of it, take the DI along,

try it out, if you have any problem, you still have the DI as a fall back.

[Shez]

My 15 year old electric guitar will be going into semi retirement as I bought myself a Crafter AGE-500 electro acoustic at the weekend.

 

We're talking about an acoustic here so any references to electric guitars and their amps are somewhat superfluous. My Washburn acoustic has a jack as well as an XLR output. The XLR is essentially a built in DI box in the case of this guitar. If you're within a couple of meters of the desk, by all means plug a jack lead straight in. With active electronics, that works fine with a short lead.

 

If the desk is more than a couple of meters away, plug the XLR straight in - no need for another DI box. By all means carry another DI - it's a useful problem solver to have with you.

[johndenim]

I can't be bothered to talk about it being application dependant ; remind John that it's likely a longer cable run and as such balanced is very important ; ask if its mic level balanced or line level balanced ; ask whether or not you can be bothered to try them both out.

 

I can't be bothered to wr......

 

Oh, quite right Rob.

I seem to put everyone in my place as in, P.A on stage next to me. :D

Sorry!

[berry120]

Perhaps it's just my bad luck, but has anyone else had problems with XLR outputs on guitars? There have been two guitarists at church recently that I can think of who've turned up with nice XLR sockets on their guitars, so I've thought "ooh, I'll give that a go" and just taken it straight into the desk. Nothing but a faint buzzing / hiss either time... Jack output and DI was fine though, so I stick with that as a matter of course now, unless someone turns up and guarantees to me that it works!

[nick7076]

Mate of mine has an electro/acoustic. No idea the make I'm afraid.

 

In order for the XLR output to do anything there needs to be a power source either internal battery or external from phantom.

The jack out sends un balanced at level suitable to go to a DI or amp.

The XLR sends balanced, so can go straight to mixer.

 

Obviously different manufacturers may be different.

[johndenim]

I would assume that both outs are linked to the internal processor which requires a power supply?

I.e the 9v battery.

 

I don't know of any guitars with a phantom?

[i_hate_fisicks]

I used to have a Washburn guitar that had an XLR on it. There was no electronic wizardry associated with it, it was just a parellel of the jack output, and as such, fairly useless. Other guitars may be different. If I was you, I'd use your DI as normal. If you're interested, take the panel off the guitar and see how it's wired, and try it a different time.

[JamesC]

Hi,

 

Thank you for your replies. For those of you who are interested I have had a chance this evening to try out the various combinations.

 

Firstly, closer inspection of the plate around the sockets reveals "HI-Z" embossed by the jack socket and "LOW-Z BAL" by the XLR socket so we can safely assume it is a proper low impedance balanced signal on the XLR output.

 

I tried three combinations:

* DI box without Guitar Amp Simulation

* DI box with Guitar Amp Simulation

* XLR out from Guitar straight into mixer

 

The DI box without Simulation was as you would expect (all frequencies passed through). The result is a very metallic sound with too much top. You get the noise of every string being plucked as if you have your ear right by the sound hole as it's being played.

 

The DI box with Guitar Amp Simulation switched on works very well. It gives a much warmer sound with a lot less top and not at all metallic sounding. I've had the DI box some time but had forgotten how surprisingly good the Amp Simulation is.

 

Finally directly out of the guitar on XLR. My opinion is that it is somewhere between the two options offered by the DI box. The sound was quite metallic but not as metallic as the DI Box without Simulation. The guitar obviously doesn't have the sophistication amp simulation the GI100 has, but my guess is that it has some kind of basic low pass filter which improves it a bit.

 

As far as noise on the signal goes it was fine. Again XLR out of the guitar was the middle of the road option. The least noise option was the DI box without Simulation and the noisiest signal was from the DI box with Simulation though it was still well within acceptable levels.

 

So in conclusion my preferred option (when not able to use my amp) will still be going though the DI with Simulation but I would be happy to use the XLR out from the guitar if I had to or if I wanted a metallic sound.

I won't be using the DI box without Simulation or take the jack output direct into a mixer. :D

 

Thanks,

 

James

 

P.S. @ berry120 - It looks to me like you've just been unlucky. I can now guarantee there's a signal on my XLR socket. There is a button inside the socket which I assume switches on the circuitry that drives it. Is it possible the XLR leads weren't quite in fully and didn't press the button hard enough? Just an idea if the problem isn't down to a faulty guitar or a low battery.