frog3d Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 At my school, in the drama studio there is currently a rack amp which I think is 600w, and 2 speakers. These are at least 8 years old, and crap quality, and the new head of theatre studies uses it quite a lot now.I have been put in charge of the sound stuff now, as well as lighting, because no one else could figure out how to do anything (common sense), and the last head of theatre studies had to leave in a hurry due to certain allegations(!)We have a decent SoundCraft desk, so all that needs replacing is the amp and speakers, it would be great if the new speakers could be wallmounted, and I would like 4. Problem is, I have absolutely no idea what to get. They are used for most types of music, and sound effects.Any ideas what makes or models I should be looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMouse Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 At my school, in the drama studio there is currently a rack amp which I think is 600w, and 2 speakers. These are at least 8 years old, and crap quality, and the new head of theatre studies uses it quite a lot now.I have been put in charge of the sound stuff now, as well as lighting, because no one else could figure out how to do anything (common sense), and the last head of theatre studies had to leave in a hurry due to certain allegations(!)We have a decent SoundCraft desk, so all that needs replacing is the amp and speakers, it would be great if the new speakers could be wallmounted, and I would like 4. Problem is, I have absolutely no idea what to get. They are used for most types of music, and sound effects.Any ideas what makes or models I should be looking at? What size room?What kinda volume are you looking for?What is your budget? It might also be useful to know what you've already got installed as the amp might be fine - but the speakers could be letting it down. Or...it might be crap like you said! Any particular reason you want 4 speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog3d Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 What size room?What kinda volume are you looking for?What is your budget?The room is 29' x 73.5', which is quite an odd space, but enought volume to 'fill it'. Basicly, when it comes to money I have as much as I want to spend, but don't want to spend too much. (I know thats probably not very helpful so I'll say I want to keep it under 3 grand) It might also be useful to know what you've already got installed as the amp might be fine - but the speakers could be letting it down. Or...it might be crap like you said! Any particular reason you want 4 speakers?I believe the amp is Crown, but its older then the speakers, and I doubt was particularly expensive when it was bought, so it might as well be replaced. I wanted 4 speakers to fill the space, because the seating is always being changed, and othertimes it is used like a hall.Thanks for the reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazHS Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Crown are a good name, its probably an old powertech workhorse, which is still a VERY good amp! With 3k, I'd be looking at possibly some Nexo PS8/PS10s with their appropriate sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Age is irrelevent, if something is still working. As stated, Crown is a good make so unless it is faulty does not need replacing...... think of the planet!As an example, I have an HH V800 amp which must be 20 years old now and well used. Apart from a few scratches and a new power switch around 10 years ago, it is every bit as good as they day it left the factory I'd be looking at the speakers first.Maybe you could borrow an amp and a pair of speakers to try to identify where your 'crapness' is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolley1466 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Sounds like a school I know...Only 8 years old? If they're working whats the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 If it is a multi-purpose space, then the most important thing is that it can do what the users want. You need to take each use and consider it in isolation. what would be the best setup for each. Then you will get a feel for where speakers need to go. You might find that 4 speakers on the wall might work, but where, two pairs, or 4 spread out? Before you consider brands, what kind of music? Are you talking about a PA for the music dept primarily that will be just doing singer duty, or having a fully miked up drum kit going through it? It will mean very different kit. You can have passive cabs with built in crossovers, or more complex systems with active crossovers and more amps and subs. Would you be better having a system that can be ground stacked that could be taken and used somewhere else, or is the system just going to be for the room? What are the acoustics like? Rubbish acoustics mean more problems that a poorly selected system won't like. Where will the mixer go, how about cabling, any monitors in the plan? So many questions, and to be fair you haven't enough experience to guarantee you won't waste your 3 grand. On this subject - how can you have a budget without knowing what you want? You can't simply guess. You may well find that buying a single pair of decent speakers and using your existing amp will sound great. After all, if your amp is ancient, but doesn't distort or hiss and stays reliable - why not use it. I too have an old HH amp sitting in a rack that's been there since before you were born - it sounds fine. Very rarely are amps truly rubbish - after all, they at the most basic level just make things louder. Quality amps do make a difference, but in your circumstances, will this actually be heard with the grim acoustics and probably compressed audio fed to it? paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog3d Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 You might find that 4 speakers on the wall might work, but where, two pairs, or 4 spread out? Before you consider brands, what kind of music? Are you talking about a PA for the music dept primarily that will be just doing singer duty, or having a fully miked up drum kit going through it? It will mean very different kit. You can have passive cabs with built in crossovers, or more complex systems with active crossovers and more amps and subs. Would you be better having a system that can be ground stacked that could be taken and used somewhere else, or is the system just going to be for the room? What are the acoustics like? Rubbish acoustics mean more problems that a poorly selected system won't like. Where will the mixer go, how about cabling, any monitors in the plan? http://external.redpointnetwork.co.uk/DS.jpg This is what I think would be the best layout, as it would work for both the ways the hall is used in productions. I was hoping to just need 4 full range passive speakers. Productions being the predominant use of the space, with it also being used in drama and possibly dance classes. Thats the only uses that need to be thought about, but saying the types of music going through it will be difficult. It won't be used to for live music, but definitely sound effects in productions. Apart from that, I can't really comment on what types of music will be played on it through CDs or whatever. The accoustics seem to be ok and the position of the mixer doesn't need to be worried about as its already there, and theres tonnes of cabling done, so that isn't something to worry about. So many questions, and to be fair you haven't enough experience to guarantee you won't waste your 3 grand. On this subject - how can you have a budget without knowing what you want? You can't simply guess. You may well find that buying a single pair of decent speakers and using your existing amp will sound great. After all, if your amp is ancient, but doesn't distort or hiss and stays reliable - why not use it. I too have an old HH amp sitting in a rack that's been there since before you were born - it sounds fine. Very rarely are amps truly rubbish - after all, they at the most basic level just make things louder. Quality amps do make a difference, but in your circumstances, will this actually be heard with the grim acoustics and probably compressed audio fed to it?I turned out to be quite wrong about the amp being Crown, its a Carver Proffessional PM-600 Magnetic Field Power Amp. Going to budget though, we would hope to be spending less then £1800 now, so it would be great if that amp could still be used, if it isn't powerful enough to run 4 speakers could it be used in parallel with another? Using it today, I couldn't notice any hissing, and it has been reliable, but it is hard to tell about distortion because the speakers are so bad, and I have nothing else to run it through.Thanks a lot for your input,Nick A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Age is irrelevent, if something is still working. As stated, Crown is a good make so unless it is faulty does not need replacing...... think of the planet!As an example, I have an HH V800 amp which must be 20 years old now and well used. Apart from a few scratches and a new power switch around 10 years ago, it is every bit as good as they day it left the factory :) I'd be looking at the speakers first.Maybe you could borrow an amp and a pair of speakers to try to identify where your 'crapness' is? After finding out that the amplifier isn't actually Crown, its a Carver Professional PM-600 Magnetic Field Power Amp, and budget being rethought, it would be a lot better if we could keep it if it still is up to scratch, but its hard to tell if it really is the amp or the speakers being the weakness in the system, I don't know anywhere to borrow anything. So really, I'm looking for 4 full range passive speakers for under £400 now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 What are you spending the remaining 1400 on then? Make your priority speakers and amps that can be used for most situations. Control gear and input stuff is relatively cheap to hire in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog3d Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 What are you spending the remaining 1400 on then? Make your priority speakers and amps that can be used for most situations. Control gear and input stuff is relatively cheap to hire in.There isn't a remaining 1400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 You said earlier in the same post you were looking for under £1800. For £400 (ex vat) you can get 4 of these, but no mounting brackets or amp, or 4 of these and 2 amps to go with it. [edit]Ought to add those amps are slightly underpowered, but having two amps gives the opportunity of switching out the rear speakers, or using the rears for something different to the fronts. [edit2]To say these amps are perhaps lower quality but a more suitable power rating and still in budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog3d Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 You said earlier in the same post you were looking for under £1800. For £400 (ex vat) you can get 4 of these, but no mounting brackets or amp, or 4 of these and 2 amps to go with it. [edit]Ought to add those amps are slightly underpowered, but having two amps gives the opportunity of switching out the rear speakers, or using the rears for something different to the fronts. Sorry if I was unclear, meant under £400 each, but left a bit of change to go over a bit and mounting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 If your existing amp is OK, you really only need 3 speakers and a switch to select which 2 of the 3 are needed for the stage configuration. Have a read around the forum, there is currently a thread on which is the best mid range box, it may give you some pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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