Ben Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I agree that we need a uniform way of addressing the problem of diffent methods of control (e.g. DMX512, Ethernet...) but if we go back to my example of the computor (in Ethernet - Why?), we now have windows (dont get me started on that) which is not compatable with any other system unless yo spend alot of money, however you can get a printer for example that can run on both windows and macs and can be set up in linix. the way all these systems work is very different and even different versions of windows are not often compatable but the end item (eg printer or moving light) can understand what system it is being used with.maqybe the answer is to have a system similar to the plug and play method on computors, where once connected you have to tell the desk to "install" the drivers, but the drivers are all in the desks memory already and all it does is patch the driver to the item in a similar way to a soft patch.desks would be compleatly upgradeable by use of disk (or cd because we really should be making desks with cd writers to back up) this way you could use whatever system you wanted and it would give more scope to increase in the future without making lanterns or desks obsolite. let me know what you thinkBen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 desks would be compleatly upgradeable by use of disk (or cd because we really should be making desks with cd writers to back up)Sounds like a good idea, however with high speed internet connections being available in more and more venues, being able to download updates may be usefull especialy when a company arives for a get-in with a new bit of kit for which you dont have the correct driver for. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 Just an update I have done some research and it looks like this would not only be a good idea but should be very easy and all it would require is a rewrite of the sotware on the desk, you wuld be able to run everything as ethernet for example and just have a wire with a DMX512 connector on 1 end and an Ethernet on the other NO NEED FOR A NODE.simple to do and I am having some programmers look into it. the problem may arise when going from a DMX network to Ethernet but we are looking into this. what this will mean is that there will be no need to upgrade networks but for obviuous reasons venues may wish to install newer networks as this will speed up responses. the best thing of all: there should be no need for drivers the only ones will be a driver for each protocal (DMX512, ethernet...) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 if you answer not sure or no, please give reasons so I can consider if its worth investigating possible problems or worth continuing talking to a programming team about this.thanksBen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 We already have a plug-and-play protocol that allows different brands of desks/dimmers/moving lights to communicate - it's called DMX.Forgive me, but in most situations, what's the problem with DMX? It's been around for a long time; just about every desk spits it out; it's on a standard, rugged connector; just about every dimmer or moving light etc. understands it etc. If you're interested in the future of theatrical control protocols, speak to the standards office at Plasa or the USITT who are working on such things. However, until they finalise a new protocol and it is accepted and used widely in the industry [remember SMX, PMX, AMX etc.], I see everyone sticking to DMX for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 20, 2003 Author Share Posted March 20, 2003 I agree, but I am not talking about a new protocol, this is using existing ones and is a modification to the software on a desk, it would mean that you could pass DMX and ethernet (and possibly others) down 1 cable without the need for nodes or a referb job, simply change either the desk or just the software on the desk and you can send all your different types of protocols down 1 cable and dont have to plug in nodes, just have a cable with different connectors on each side, simple. I think that the last thing we need is another protocol, we have more than enough and this idea is aimed at reducing the "need" to put in more than 1 in a venue, you could use any existing network as any protocol you want. This is not aiming to be a new protocol. hope that makes sense.ohh, and if I do it I dont see why the software will cost much if anything. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Ok, I'm lost as to what you're on about, I'm sorry! Are you suggesting that we send ethernet down 3 core DMX cabling? Surely not. I see that you could conceivably send DMX down a cat5 structured cabling system, but you'd need DMX splitters not ethernet hubs to split it out, and you'd need a cat5-5pinXLR dongles to plug your moving lights or whatever into the cat5 outlets, and there are very good reasons to keep DMX on 5pin XLRs. Also it's not in the DMX-512 spec so would be very bad installation practice if you were to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Ferguson Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 This protocol exists, it is being agreed by ESTA, manufacturers are working to include it in their products. and some already have products in the market place. It is called RDM. Have a read of this for further information. Artistic Licence RDM information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grum Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 at first the idea of Plug and play sound attractive but lets jump forward to a time when it exists....... You have just installed your new desk with plug and play software. Then Derick (sorry to all Dericks), the guy you only use when you really have to, decides to borrow the CD for your desk and install it on his computer after all he "knows about computers" (his mum even says he's an expert). Then while he's sitting around at home and learning how to be a lighiting designer he decided that he'll dig out that book on visual basic and make a few "tweaks". Well how hard can it be and after all that whole HTP / LTP thing can be so confusing. A couple of months later you are running short of crew and you give Derick a call (at least he's keen). Derick decides to suprise you with all the luverly improvements hes made (like getting rid of that patching idea to make things more simple) and so on the half he goes up to the box and installs "D-Light" on your nice new desk. suddenly the dimmers start doing strange things......Thats not right, everything worked OK on the 2.0GHz Pentium 4 Derick got from Dixons but now your left with the rest of the half to re-install the software that came with the desk (you know the stuff on that CD you left in the box for just such a stressful time as this) then re load the back-up copy of your show that you have forgotten to make and do the show (while at the same time avoiding the police who are trying to arrest you for throwing Derick out of the spot box). OR........ Maybe Derick does a good job and goes to a manufacturer instead they see the potential revenue from such a technologicaly based sense of one up manship (is that a word) as the lighting technician. And how easy as well a lighting desk on a PC, they could even make special keyboards to access certain features quickly, giving even more revenue. And those of us on tour will be in luck after all there'll be an extra job on every tour for someone to get everything out of all the boxes and plug it all together correctly (bet your life you wont find stand alon controllers like the Pearl or Hog). Don't worry though this idea will never take off, sooner or later Bill Gates will get worried about the potential competion and buy the rights. Then he will will get his developers to improve things (after all that whole HTP / LTP thing....) but such improvements will come at a price, now your desk will crash 3 times everyshow (for no aparent reason) and when it reboots it will decide to start using com port 2 to output its "DMX" (again for no aparent reason).News of this will soon spread and before you know it you won't be able to get your hands on a Celco Gold for love nor money and things will all be OK again. (I'll get my coat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grum Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Seriously though, if pulg and play meant I could use more thing from more people without having to go down the road of DMX via PC then I'm all for it. And anyway if your looking for a desk you can upgrade easily via CD or download then you could always try ADB's Phoenix.............. (I'll go now yeh?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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