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Limiting and clip advice


cliveybaby

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Hi all

 

Would like to hear any tips or tricks anyone has to help with:

 

I have fitted a couple of venues out with a basic dj set up 2 x cdj's, mixer etc

this small dj setup plums straight into the house system that I also fitted but more for

the live pa's and bands. hence the addition.

 

the system is all limited and managed , the problem is no matter how well the system is

set up the >rude word< Djs insist on over driving the dj mixer

 

all of the kit works perfectly and nothing is being clipped post the dj mixer

 

I even added some last resort compression between dj and main mixer

 

its just that most of the djs still turn all up to 11 nomatter what

the signal clips and hence very load but crap sound

 

is their anything out their that can reduce the output from the cd player, pre the dj mixer

so even with the dj mixer at +10 on everything the output will not clip

 

im not after "the mixer may still clip" or "s/n levels" or "what kit is it" answers

and yes I do know all of the kit inside out and I have not missed any pads or pots

 

Pro advice/new takes would be very useful

 

Thanks

Clive

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Hi all

 

Would like to hear any tips or tricks anyone has to help with:

 

I have fitted a couple of venues out with a basic dj set up 2 x cdj's, mixer etc

this small dj setup plums straight into the house system that I also fitted but more for

the live pa's and bands. hence the addition.

 

the system is all limited and managed , the problem is no matter how well the system is

set up the >rude word< Djs insist on over driving the dj mixer

 

all of the kit works perfectly and nothing is being clipped post the dj mixer

 

I even added some last resort compression between dj and main mixer

 

its just that most of the djs still turn all up to 11 nomatter what

the signal clips and hence very load but crap sound

 

is their anything out their that can reduce the output from the cd player, pre the dj mixer

so even with the dj mixer at +10 on everything the output will not clip

 

im not after "the mixer may still clip" or "s/n levels" or "what kit is it" answers

and yes I do know all of the kit inside out and I have not missed any pads or pots

 

Pro advice/new takes would be very useful

 

Thanks

Clive

 

Clive even if you reduce the input level from the CDJ into the DJ mixer they will still crank the dj mixer gain to hit those red lights they love so much.

I've yet to find a way of stopping Djs from doing this. One of the more effective ways of minimising this can be having a booth monitor aimed straight at their heads with a gain offset of maybe 6db driven from the main dj desk output then when they turn it up they tear their own heads off.

 

Charlie

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Put a pad Inside the CD player on the output terminations, make it big enough so that a 0db test cd will not hit the red lights (or maybe the odd flicker) on the DJ mixer with everthing wound full up on the DJ mixer.

Then standback and wait for the complaints that the system is cr*p etc and is not loud enough.

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quality answers

 

thanks folks

will most likely try all

 

bring back 70's dj's that at least new how to wire a bulgin and

change a belt on a citronic console and gave toss about kit

 

They pay for a decent system, pay to have it set up, pay an engineer for

big events then hand it over to a kid and his cd's who thinks gain is something

that happens when you eat too much and red lights are their to make it look 'spooky'

 

and they think its my fault it sounds wrong!!!!

 

If I chop some cable to short I dont abuse my cutters

 

who har

 

cliveybaby

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My friend has a solution to this - (I'm not quite sure how he did this, he tried explaining) He does something along the lines of putting wires across the red led that represents clipping on the meter, and connecting them to the headphone amp in the mixer. Means that whenever you clip, your headphones make a god awful noise. Genius. It actually works. However this is on a £150 numark mobile disco mixer....not on your average >£1000 pioneer club install mixer.
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I was going to suggest a bit of a bodge involving the clip LED, ut it would appear that chubbs has spotted a similar solution. I was going to suggest that the LED drove a transistor and then a relay, which brought in a hefty attenuator on the inputs (back of the mixer hidden away behind a panel - DJ is "presented" with panel mount phono's which go via this attenuator. Big sign next to the clip LED's saying "If I light, volume will be cut" or something else suitably understandable. You'd have to build in some time delay so the thing wasn't constantly pulling in, perhaps 3 seconds?

 

@ Kevin E - I'm afraid that it doesn't quite work like that, at least not as far as I've been told. Once the signal is distorted (clipped/square wave - call it what you want) it will do damage to the system, regardless of how well it is limited further down the chain. You can't "un-clip" a clipped signal (easily). The drivers will still be flying to their full deflection if you attenuate later on.

 

I don't think there's a limiter out there that can sort out a signal that is clipped before it reaches the limiter (would be interested to hear if there is).

 

There's a nice little thread on clipping, in relation to the destruction of a set of drivers, despite the signal being attenuated by a seperate mixer prior to reaching the PA over at

Sound on Sound

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