angel Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 :D I have some students wishing to use half a gutted pig delivered by a butcher and picked up by a butcher hung at back of stage area in huge hall for 10 minutes. I also have a mad house keeper kicking off about some H&S regs she has seen (will see these so called regs tomorrow* to prevent them from doing this. I need back up as I said they could use the gutted and cleaned out half pig for their piece. Any advice most appreciated. angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Basically, I can't see a problem with what is being suggested, given certain hazards are addressed. Firstly, there is the risk of the meat carrying disease - the meat therefore must have an official health mark stamped on it (i.e. cannot be an abbatoir reject) and associated paperwork and arrive in a refridgerated van. If you are getting it fresh soon before the show and getting rid of it soon after, the ongoing risk that it poses to your health is minimal (though non-zero). Obviously people need to wash hands after handling etc. etc. My major concern is what the butcher is doing with it afterwards - red meat needs to be stored below 7C (for human consumption) which is clearly not the case, so he can't then pass it on for sale. What this means for you is you'll have to buy the side of pork each night and also pay to dispose of it and for its transport - this all adds up. Other things you need to consider are manual handling procedures (depending on size, it'll weigh up to 40kg) and how you are safely going to hang it (the usual way is a hook behind the equivalent of its Achilles tendon - but as this isn't load tested, you'll need extra precautions such as not walking directly or nearby under it etc.). I'd be interested what 'regs' this person is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 yes there is disinfectant in the wings plus washing facilities for the 3 cast members who touch the meat. The meat is being disposed of by the butcher. It is only required to be in the space for approx. 2 hours for one assessment (taking into consideration rehearsal time for a performance lasting 10 minutes. The meat is 4 stone in weight and being suspended from rope and hook from grid at back of space. I am to attend a god damn meeting tomorrow regarding these *so called* H&S regs this house keeper and found from a H&S officer I can tell right off there is going to be heated discussions..over something that really is readily available in any kitchen space! I still have not seen these regs and its all getting very secret service in the fact they are being witheld till tomorrow's meeting!!!! The meat is not an abbatoir reject either as the has the relevant paperwork regarding his products. Im at a loss. *shakes head in shock and disbelief* angel x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Rob, Were you a butcher in a previous life?? :D Angel, Why not do a risk assessment before your meeting tomorrow? It sounds like you know the butcher quite well, so you could get an expert opinion from him as to what will happen to the pig if it is left out for a couple of hours. Not much, I suspect, but I did wonder what the effect of n kW of lx shining onto it would be!! If you come prepared with a couple of pages of notes showing that you have looked into all the issues carefully, it will obviously help your cause. It might also win you a prize in a competition for the wackiest risk assessment! One thing I have often encountered is that people use phrases like "H&S regs" but do not have the slightest idea of what they're talking about. So I too am interested in knowing what happens at your meeting. And what's the point in having rules if they're not made freely available? I can't wait to find out how you get on! Dave P.S. I'd also be fascinated to know why they want a dead pig on stage. Is one of your students related to a Mr Hirst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baldwin Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 but I did wonder what the effect of n kW of lx shining onto it would be!! Tasty spare ribs for all the crew, provided you remember the BBQ sauce! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 chuckles at the BBQ sauce! well....I have already completed a risk assessment with help from our biology technician who is accoustomed to her students handling similar substances..I just wanted to 'arm' myself with some official related document within the performance space..I ask yer....what am I doing? when did my life get to be so complicated? *blinks* :D will keep you guys posted on outcome the morrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Were you a butcher in a previous life?? :)Er no - but I have spent some time working in abbatoirs and studying the relevant legislation and taking exams in meat hygiene as part of my course (which is entirely non-theatrical!). Most of the relevant legislation applies to food for human consumption - if you rule this out the only major relevant thing I can think of is COSHH. Let us know what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 right... been onto HSE and printed off loads of info re: animals used in entertainment and also hygiene related info and regs. also called DEFRA and environmental health..all say im fine to do this. I am armed with about 50 sheets documentation and im not afraid to fire it at the housekeeper! *nods* *sighs* will let you know if I needed to put her out of her misery tomorrow folks. oh and you wished to know why they are using the pig.....two words that sends shivers down all technicians backs...... DEVISED THEATRE! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Oh no! Not a devised piece! Surely this means that you'll go to all the hassle of sorting out your housekeeper, HSE, etc, etc will your hard researched knowledge and then they'll cut the pig from the show!!! (Or am I just being cynical?) ;) :D Good luck with the meeting! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.! BOL at the pig being cut from the show! you are so right but ill kill the little blighters should they wish to do so! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 20, 2003 Author Share Posted March 20, 2003 k...for those interested in OINK thread...latest update. called DEFRA and HSE and environmental health all gave me go ahead..I printed off about 50 pages from HSE and provided links, phone numbers for above and highlighted clauses to take to meeting..completed 3 risk assessments and provided butcher's paperwork and kicked the arse out of the housekeeper's arguement. *nods* done and done. Thankyou for all who contributed..there is a pig heaven...afterall. though not in our performance. *chuckles* angel x <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 but I did wonder what the effect of n kW of lx shining onto it would be!!Tasty spare ribs for all the crew, provided you remember the BBQ sauce! <_<It did also occur to me that this could be a fire hazard. All that fat could be quite flammable. Maybe the pig needs to be pressure-impregnated with FlameBar before being hung up? But which type of FlameBar should you use? There again, perhaps it could be considered as if it was wood - if it's 0.75" or thicker then it doesn't need fireproofing. Sounds a bit dubious - maybe it depends on exactly what's left after the butcher has extracted all the decent bits. I doubt if there are any guidelines for this sort of thing. You might have to do some tests with a blowlamp... kicked the arse out of the housekeeper's argument.Glad all went well. Tell us, did you ever find out what the mysterious H&S regs were that threatened to slaughter this brave attempt at extending the boundaries of art? Or were they just a load of hogwash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 20, 2003 Author Share Posted March 20, 2003 yes the so called regs were just a few pages from HSE regarding live animals in performance. (I guess just incase the pig miraculously recovered)? *scratches chin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Congratutions on winning your "debate" - you seem to have all the answers now, but this thread reminded me of a "favour" I did for someone on my course at Hull many years ago..she was directing a play by Edward Bond which required a pigs head - no budget, and the real thing being much cheaper than making a "prop" head - would I collect it from the friendly butchers for her? so I went to the butchers expecting to pick up relatively anonymous carrier bag to find the butcher had very kindly already mounted the pigs head on a broomstick (as per the stage direction, I assume) and wrapped it in see-thru plastic. Very red - faced bus ride from springbank to cottingham road clutcing broom handle - "It's not mine - it's for a friend!" Half way there I realised my hand was wet and sticky - I'm not sure what the liquid was - I hope water from cleaning the head out. In those days I'd never heard of CoSHH and health and safety was why you bought condoms........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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