Headphones for live sound mixing

[mikeysmith]

I wondered if anyone could help answer what could well be a fairly straightforward question about headphones!

 

I run a function band in which I play keys and also control the main mix (which isn't ideal I know, but generally I manage to get good results). Being a student, I try and use inexpensive equipment as much as possible, which led me to purchase some Beyer DT231 headphones to help with the mixing etc, rather than the more expensive DT100s etc.

 

However, even with the phones output level on the mixer turned up all the way, the ambient noise of the band (which is right next to me) completely blocks out all the sound in the headphones, meaning using them is pretty useless.

 

My question is, is this due to the design of the headphones, my audio set-up, or am I just too close to the band to be able to do anything useful with headphones on? The headphones have an impedance 32 ohms and SPL of 95DB and plugged straight into the mixer (a Mackie CFX20). Should I be looking to purchase some higher spec headphones, or a headphone amplifier, or should I just admit defeat and continue mixing without using the headphones?!

[mervaka]

if you dont mind saving a bit of money, the sennheiser HD25s will do the job. its on my wish list. I currently have a pair of beyer DT770s.

[fatfrog]

Second Mervaka on the HD25's there are good piece of kit alright...

[johndenim]

I would suggest that If you are mixing from the stage, to have a pair of whatever cabs you are using strapped to your head.

 

Why?

because you will never hear the sound the audience is hearing from headphones.

Do a really good sound check, ring out the mics etc, them have some decent IEMs for the level.

[hounsome]

I use HD25's but be aware there are 2 versions get the expesive one there are really much better.

 

colin

[djmatthill]

I use HD25's but be aware there are 2 versions get the expesive one there are really much better.

 

colin

Another Vote for HD25`s - Value for money cans.

[Solstace]

Another vote for the HD25's from me, too. Either version is pretty good for the price-point. These days I'd buy the full-fat model, but the cheaper HD25SP's have been "good enough" for most gigs in the six years I've had them...

[Rob_Beech]

Let's all just hang on a minute here.

 

Let us remember the true application here. To start with John has a very valid point, it will sound totally different. You really need to listen to the actual mix rather than a dry representation of it on a pair of headphones. However, once you've done this, simple monitoring can be done on stage, I did it for years (in between my "real" job as an engineer shall we say) with a band, mixing on stage, I chose not to wear any headphones as I could manage playing my keys and hearing them in the FOH mix. It was made easier by the rest of the band being on IEM so no stage monitors destroying what grasp I had of the FOH mix.

 

Secondly and equally importantly, your ambient noise level is likely to be very very loud. The HD25's and DT100's (the 2 that people usually make a choice between) are very good at blocking out sounds you don't want, but they're not miracle workers. I'd suggest that a pair of earphones (in ear design and if you can afford it, custom moulded) would do a much better job. They'd also look a little better in the sense that you'd not be able to see a keyboard player with a big pair of headphones on. Not a problem you may say? But listen on. A while back I was doing a fairly large 100% LIVE production where a keyboard player wore DT150's. Comments went back and forth about it all being on track from members with a very small amount of knowledge because of the headphones. I could guarantee it wasn't but it still causes problems.

 

The problem however with earphones is their GOOD isolation properties, you won't get to hear the actual FOH mix from out front at all. Just straight into your ears. At the end of the show when the guitarists amp is 12dB louder than it was at the start of the show on axis (which incidentally will be 6dB louder than it was in the sound check by default) How will you know that the balance you require is still the same?

[lasvegas]

As you have stated yourself, this isn't an ideal situation. As a musician I know how much noise there is onstage and as a sound engineer I know how difficult it is to mix from headphones. I use DT100s which are great for detail but a bit tiresome on the ears to use constantly. I know from those 'no room out front for the desk' jobs, that trying to mix onstage with them on is virtually impossible without having both hands pressing them on to your ears, which I am guessing might just affect your playing ability!!! I would second the 'in ears' approach simply because they are better at shutting out external noise. It might be best though to get the mix how you want it by listening FOH and then get on stage and see how that mix sounds in your headphones/iem etc. You sometimes have to mix something that sounds wrong in your ears so that it would hopefully sound right to the public. Not only is this a tough job but everyone in every audience is a sound engineer too!

[TimmyP1955]

If you want closed headphones, the Sennheiser 280 have pretty good isolation and sound decent (much better than the ubiquitous Sony 7506). For even better isolation and similar sound quality, there's ExtremeHeadphones.com, but I don't know if these are sold in the UK.