Possible Equipment Package

[Wysiwyg101]

I was thinking, if I could get an investor interested, I would build a

high-res video processing package. The main purpose that I would build

it would be to cross rent it, and myself or someone I know to operate

it, to existing AV companies to augment their events and possibly even

production companies. For instance, maybe all of their units are out

and they need a little extra or maybe even, they don't quite have a

video package that has the capabilities of what I want to build, etc.

So, tell me what yall think of what I am proposing. Keep in mind, it's

just a pipe dream. I don't have an investor and this would be very,

very expensive to build. It would all be rack mounted in rolling

cases. I used a similar package that belongs to AVW-Telav/Freeman

(only not quite with this same capability). Here are the contents:

4 Barco ScreenPro II's (HD-SDI with EOC Cards) $60k

4 ImagePro's $12k

1 Barco 16X16 Analog Matrix $6k

1 Barco 8X8 DVI Matrix $8300

1 Barco 8X8 SDI Matrix $4100

1 Barco ScreenPro II Controller (it is a tossup here to use a Encore

SC instead) $5k

1 Barco BlendPro II $7k

1 Furman 20 Amp Power Conditioner $500 estimated

2 ATDEC Spacedec Freestanding HEX $1200 (http://www.atdec.com/

Content_Common/pr-All-Products_Freestanding-Hex.seo)

12 Widescreen Monitors to attach to the SpaceDec (2 per SPII for a

total of 8 and 1 for each ImagePro) $3600 estimated

1 16 Port Switch (preferably Linksys) $200 estimated

Miscellaneous Cables $1k estimated

A DVI to Cat5 System for projectors and Downstage Monitors $5k

estimated

A VGA to Cat5 System for projectors and Downstage Monitors (in case

the AV company isn’t ready for DVI yet) $5k estimated

A Secondary Rack with Two Industrial grade computers for backgrounds

and DSK and a Furman for it $11k estimated

 

 

Roadcases similar to AVW-Telavs. With a long case for the monitors to

also act as a stand for the monitors to sit on.

 

 

Now, here are a few configurations that this can be used in.

 

 

1.) Using the BlendPro II and 2 SPII's it could be used with a wide

screen in the middle with the two outboards being controlled by the

other 2 SPII's and the ImagePro's could be used for downstage

monitors.

 

 

2.) Each SPII could be used to control one of four screens (two

inboard and two outboard) with the ImagePro's once again controlling

the DS monitors.

 

 

3.) Two SPII's could control each of two outboards and a third can

control a center 16:9 Image. The fourth could control a record feed

from something else routed thru an ImagePro. The other three

ImagePro's could be used for, you probably guessed it, DS monitors.

 

 

There are a wide variety of uses such a system could be used in. Why

not just use a ScreenPro Plus 1604 (which I could get already rack

mounted for $10k not counting monitors) for all this?

 

 

a.) up to three logostores

b.) adaptability (ie, you can almost always add something to this

sytem via a simple Cat5 cable)

c.) If you did have a widescreen or 16:9 application, but the client

brought in a 4:3 beta tape, you can keep the resolutions the same

(especially when you use a background) and not lose anything or "have

to stretch" anything like you would with a 1604.

d.) a great point is that you can go DVI to DVI and have an exact

pixel for pixel representation on the screen (square meets square)

e.) part of the case design would be ease and accessibility of inputs

and outputs

 

 

Probably quite a few more reasons than that, but these are just the

simple ones that even a guy like me can think of.

 

 

To pay for it, I was thinking around $1850 a day which includes the

operator and $3000 a week. That money would be used to pay off the

tech, insurance, any storage, the investment, of course,

transportation to the events. So, after it comes down to it, it isn't

going to be a lot of revenue. Before the cost of the road cases, it is

probably going cost somewhere around $130-$135k conservatively. Call

it $160k even just for contingency sakes. If approx $1500 per day were

able to be applied to the investor, it would take close to 107 rental

days to pay off.

 

 

So, with that, I am inviting comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.

Keep in mind that this is the simplified version.

[paulears]

Nice spec, but with a project of this cost, it's more usual to specify kit for a particular job. The most worrying thing is the pricing - way, way off the ballpark.

 

100 rental days is far too long - assuming it is ever going to be used that much. As consecutive days are rarely possible due to the de-rig, transport and re-rig, the realistic time period for 100 days of paid use is going to be more like a year or two! An accountant would probably advise that its value, at the end of this time would be almost zero, but the capital would not have been recouped.

 

For this kind of quality level, it's likely that not all the kit will be used every time - having a supply of monitors is great if they can be integrated into the design the client wants. It seems to me that you either build a complex system and then use it in a single style, or build the display side to suit the project. I'm not sure that an expensive system like this is that marketable. Who are the clients, what do they need it do to, and what can it really do for them. I suspect if this was Dragon's Den, nobody would put the money up.

 

Last thing - some prices are a bit random. You've allowed a thousand dollars for cabling - you may well find this rather low. Three years to recoup is too long because next month, not next year, better kit comes along, usually at a better price too. So you will have dated kit before it's paid for.

 

 

So it's a nice system, but you are 'kind of' designing something for a job you haven't actually got, and buying kit for projects that haven't been designed. From my own experience of this kind of thing, what happens is you get the kit, make the plays to use it, then the client say yes but you then have to go and buy more kit to service the exact need. I spent a lot of money on a fast fold screen. The first job demanded a rear projection screen, I'd designed everything around a front projection version. I bought a 40m multi. The second job needed a 50m version. I bought some AC Lighting Tourspots, some Martins going in next week - it just goes on and on.

[jason5d]

The figures do look too low,

I was wondering if you have potential customers

 

also for an invester there's not a good enough return

[Wysiwyg101]

First, thank you very much for the reply. I really do appreciate it. Like I said, it's just a pipe dream and not even close to being a reality. But, you have put an outside perspective on it that made quite a bit of sense.

 

Nice spec, but with a project of this cost, it's more usual to specify kit for a particular job. The most worrying thing is the pricing - way, way off the ballpark.

 

I am not sure here if you think my rental pricing is too low (I have heard that, but I forgot to change the rates) or if you think the cost of the equipment is too low. For rental pricing, I have been told $2500 per day and/or $7500 for the week would be closer to the real pricing specs.

 

100 rental days is far too long - assuming it is ever going to be used that much. As consecutive days are rarely possible due to the de-rig, transport and re-rig, the realistic time period for 100 days of paid use is going to be more like a year or two! An accountant would probably advise that its value, at the end of this time would be almost zero, but the capital would not have been recouped.

 

Well, it wouldn't be consecutive. One thing I have noticed about AV companies is that when they rent out equipment they rent it out by the day, some rent it out based even on set-up and load-out days and some just for actual days used on showsite. They also rent it out by the week. Unfortunately, the week is for 4 or more days and the rate is similar to the ratio used below.

 

For this kind of quality level, it's likely that not all the kit will be used every time - having a supply of monitors is great if they can be integrated into the design the client wants. It seems to me that you either build a complex system and then use it in a single style, or build the display side to suit the project. I'm not sure that an expensive system like this is that marketable. Who are the clients, what do they need it do to, and what can it really do for them. I suspect if this was Dragon's Den, nobody would put the money up.

 

Not all system components have to be used each time. Of course, I realize that if a piece of equipment is in the rack not being used for too many ocassions, then that equipment package needs to be re-thought. The clients would AV companies who need it to augment what they already have. For instance, a company called Audio Visual Techniques just came to town a few years ago and managed to snag all of the Hyatts from AVW-Telav. They have some fairly large venues where this kind of equipment could work very well, but they don't have the budget yet to buy it and set it up outright. But, they could, if they knew they could count on it, sell it to their clients. They make money and I make money.

 

What's the Dragon's Den?

 

Last thing - some prices are a bit random. You've allowed a thousand dollars for cabling - you may well find this rather low. Three years to recoup is too long because next month, not next year, better kit comes along, usually at a better price too. So you will have dated kit before it's paid for.

 

Well, actually, I rounded up up quite a bit in the rest of the pricing. I got quotes from my Barco rep awhile back on most of this gear for another application. Where an item might have been listed at $4100 I went ahead and rounded that up to $5k just to be on the safe side. There's probably $10k-$15k extra just in the rounding up. Plus, I was going to add in a 20% Contingency Fund. I forgot to do it. Of course, with some of the other statistics and facts you have mentioned that would have been not only a moot point, but proving your point even more, ie, if it's too costly now to really make any money, then it would be way too costly after adding in another 20%.

 

So it's a nice system, but you are 'kind of' designing something for a job you haven't actually got, and buying kit for projects that haven't been designed. From my own experience of this kind of thing, what happens is you get the kit, make the plays to use it, then the client say yes but you then have to go and buy more kit to service the exact need. I spent a lot of money on a fast fold screen. The first job demanded a rear projection screen, I'd designed everything around a front projection version. I bought a 40m multi. The second job needed a 50m version. I bought some AC Lighting Tourspots, some Martins going in next week - it just goes on and on.

 

I see where you are going with this. That's one reason that I didn't add projectors to this, because they change so frequently what's the point in purchasing those. And you are right about having to add or change the system package. I spec'd out wide screen monitors for instance. What about if the client wants to a 4:3 ratio? I could use the widescreens sure, but it would look awkward. There wouldn't be too much to add to this system package.

 

Well, how sad in the end, another pipe dream down the tubes. Sighh. Oh well, back to the drawing board. I am sure something else will pop up eventually. Thank you again for the insight you have brought to this.

 

Rick

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate it very much.

 

 

The figures do look too low,

I was wondering if you have potential customers

 

also for an invester there's not a good enough return

 

Nahh, I just have the thought of potential customers and potential investors. It's just a pipe dream. I have been a "tech" for so long I am ready for something else. As long as it has to do with AV that is. I guess I am just ready for some ownership of something besides myself as a product. Who knows, maybe one of these days.

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

Rick

[paulears]

My fault - I forgot you were in the states (could I suggest you add the Dallas info into the location box in your profile) We kind of always assume everyone is here in the UK. Should have realised from the dollars, not pounds!

 

Dragons Den is a UK TV programme where 4 real millionaires get pitched to by people who have great ideas or products, but need the investment - sometimes they get the money they want, but very often the dragons ask a few simple questions, and then decide it's a non-starter. Sometimes people ask for $100,000 but the dragons may say ok, but for 40% of the business - and the person doing the pitch can't bear to give away that much - but the dragons are business savvy, and it's their assistance as well as cash that matters.

 

One recent example was a man who invented something called Reggae reggae sauce. He got the money and as sold millions of bottles of it. Other people have great ideas, but no customers?

 

I get the feeling you want the kit - and then will try to find clients who want to use it? That's fine if it is your money. An investor needs a proper return, and I don't think that is certain enough.

[Pete McCrea]

It is an impressive spec- I'd whole heartedly recommend the Barco kit- we use it and have made the decision to base the high end processing on their products, having the ScreenPro II HD/SDI EOC and Presentation Pro II Digital along with CLM HD8 and R10 projectors. I'd suggest that you consider fibre for the transmission of DVI though. To my mind the fibre is easier to use, and with some manufacturers you end up having to run 2xCAT5 to get the higher resolutions through the system, and I'm not too sure if they would be affected by mismatches in the cable length or skew between the pairs. I'd also suggest looking at casing the units separately to maximise the flexibility, i.e. being able to rent out three SPII's on different shows.

 

As others have said though you will probably struggle to get an investor on board, as you currently are relying on creating customers by having the kit.

 

If you want to start owning kit, then why not start by finding a client that you can service with 1 SPII, and building your stock from there? I would strongly advocate the 'buy kit as you need it' route, that way you should end up with an empty warehouse, as the kit you buy is the kit you use regularly.

 

As a guideline for the pricing, we charge £500/day (about $1000), £1500/week list for the SPII excluding Value Added Tax. And that is only the unit, with mains lead, all other its are additional to it. That is a pretty standard price for them across the South West of the UK.