David Buffham Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 How does (or where does) the cable from smart repeater connect on the fixture. (yoke? I think not ) These 2 images shows the arrangement quite well... http://www.london-light.com/clientfiles/vl5_1.jpg http://www.london-light.com/clientfiles/vl5_2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny baby Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 I havent used this type of fixture before, I have used other vari* stuff but not the ones we are disussing. If the wiring from the repeater goes into the yoke. How does it revolve, (pan) or is it a static fixture??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 er, I know vari* lite are a massive company, and very popular lights, and they are great, but doesnt this system seem a little unnecessary/over complex? are their any advantages to this style of cabling? it just seems to me that you cant use normal power cable and you cant just normal DMX cable. maybe thats for a reason... monopoly time anyone? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Funk Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 considering how old these fixtures are, its probably something to do with V*L thinking that DMX control wasnt really advanced enough to do what they wanted to do at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 ...or just trying to make the actual fixture as small as possible by removing a lot of the control. It really isn't as complex as it seems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 I know its not particually complex, however it is more speicalised cables to buy... which is just irritating, although I guess you might save some money by centralizing the control circuitry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dave Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Not really, and infact it is actually quite cheap. The VL's that are being referred to are available for hire only and normally, VL will provide all the cable you need for a rig FOC - you only pay for the hire of the fixtures and when you are using a large rig, its becomes very economical (I think I used to pay about £30-£40 pw for a VL5). They do take DMX - we used to run our VL rig of a pearl or diamond II. The cable comes out of the base of the unit were the hook clamps or tripod is so it does not get in the way. The VL's you buy have the ususal ballast/DMX/power on the bottom of the unit the same as any other mover. VL's were the first ever moving head so every other fixture you use is based on their designs. In fact, it wasn't so long ago that VL took Martin to Court in the US and won over Martins designs for MAC 500/600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 If the wiring from the repeater goes into the yoke. How does it revolveThe head only pans through 360° and there's enough slack inside for the cable to handle that without being stressed or stretched. Unless the pan (or tilt) stop wimps out, in which case it can get a bit nasty in there :D er, I know vari* lite are a massive company...Er, were a massive company, until Genlyte Thomas snapped them up for the paltry sum of around $10,000,000 in November 2002 (click here for a report published at the time)....and very popular lights, and they are great... :huh: ;) :D <_< <_< <_< ...doesnt this system seem a little unnecessary/over complex... ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) you cant just normal DMX cable. maybe thats for a reason... monopoly time anyone?Sort of... ish... the reason for it being this way is down to the way the original V*L system was designed... [VERY BASIC HISTORY LESSON] In the beginning was The Vari-lite®, which eventually became known as the VL1™. The system (eventually known as Series 100™) was driven via a front end computer rack, controlled by a custom designed desk. Processing power in 1981 was not what it is today and if you wanted more than 96 heads on a show, you had to set up two systems, with two computers and two desks. Vari-lite's answer to this was to redesign the whole system and in 1985 they launched Series 200™, with new lights (VL2™ and VL3™; the VL4™ appeared in 1987) and a new desk (the Artisan®, with the Mini Artisan® released alongside the VL4™). With Series 200™, each light carried its own computer, stored its own cue information and sent information about its status (reply data) back to the Artisan®, which did little more than monitor this info and send cue numbers and control information out to the lights as and when the operator pushed the buttons. It worked OK :huh: but all this computer hardware made them very, very expensive to build, maintain and therefore hire. The business wanted something a bit simpler, more affordable, lighter and parcan - like. Vari-lite® had patented just about everything it was possible to patent about the system, (or so they thought) almost down to the screws that held it together. Because of this, they (mistakenly) assumed that they would have the moving light market all to themselves until the patents expired after twenty years. However, they failed to realise (unlike Bill Gates) that the software running the hardware was just as important as the hardware itself and never bothered to licence it out, otherwise just about every moving light and controller would be Series 200™ based today. Meanwhile, some people rather strangely objected to this monopolistic, Texan approach and other moving lights began to appear - moving mirror units like Golden Scans and Intellabeams, controlled with DMX via early moving light desks, such as the original WholeHog. Clients and LDs didn't want to be tied to using the Artisan® all the time and so Vari-lite® needed to produce a system that could be run from either Series 200™ or DMX. The result was Series 300™ and the VL5™, released in the latter half of 1992. The system featured the Smart Repeater™, which helped make things a lot cheaper by using one computer to control six lights. The use of a normal tungsten lamp assisted this, meaning that the on-board ballast could be abandoned; the remaining electronics required to drive each head could be condensed onto a card small enough to be carried on one side of the yoke and that there was no need for the Upper Enclosure (the big box on top). What the Smart Repeater™ also does is to look at the incoming data signal, be it Series 200™ or DMX and then convert it into Series 300™ data, which it then sends to the light. Whatever else people might say about Vari-lite®, the VL5™ is, in the opinion of many, a true design classic and looks almost as modern today as it did nearly twelve years ago. It's probably the most reliable, road-friendly, easily repaired fixture they ever produced and it's low weight means it is still the only moving light of any real power that you can carry two of at once :) [/VERY BASIC HISTORY LESSON] In fact, it wasn't so long ago that VL took Martin to Court in the US and won over Martins designs for MAC 500/600 Then, less than a year later Martin produced "injunction busting" versions for the American market, with upgrade kits to bring them up to the European spec., again without breaking the terms of the ruling. At the time VL had also been involved in a long, costly legal wrangle with High End, which was eventually settled out of court and they just didn't have the funds (allegedly) for another expensive court battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 The VL's that are being referred to are available for hire only I thought you could buy 5's now, hence why oither people apart from vlps are now hiring them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dave Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 [I thought you could buy 5's now, hence why oither people apart from vlps are now hiring them? No, can you buy a VL 2416 which is effectively a VL5 but has a big heavy ballast stuck on the bottom. One the main benfits of using series 300 VL's is that they don't weigh much - a VL5B weighs 12 Kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampieman Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 They can be hired from The Moving Light Company and they brought the units in for Mamma Mia in Holland IIRC. But I think the only companies to own them are MLC and VLPS Other companies are able to hire them out as sub hirers or as hire partners to VLPS best thing if anybody wants to know more about the Series 300, is to contact VLPS London and get booked onto a Series 300 course as at one time you had to do the course to be able to hire them! Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Where is the best place to hire Vari Lites in the South west area (just out of interest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmac Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Vari-lite® had patented just about everything it was possible to patent about the system, (or so they thought) almost down to the screws that held it together. Because of this, they (mistakenly) assumed that they would have the moving light market all to themselves until the patents expired after twenty years. However, they failed to realise (unlike Bill Gates) that the software running the hardware was just as important as the hardware itself and never bothered to licence it out, otherwise just about every moving light and controller would be Series 200™ based today. The patents gained by Vari-lite covered DMX. They could have held up development of all other systems if they had had confidence in their ownership of these patents. A lot of prior art existed and in a number of cases where infringement occurred of their patents VL did not take legal action. In the case of DMX they made a public statement that they would not challenge its use. The patent covering the network aspects, ie addressing lamps (including DMX addressing) and getting data back, was sufficient for Light and Sound Design to cable the control for every lamp back to the console in the Icon system. If my memory serves me correctly this system was the first moving head system to compete with Vari-lite. It was at least a couple of years after the Icon introduction before others appeared. The patents did cover software, in particular the network aspects as well as the storing of cues in the fixture. If this patent is still active it could prevent other companies releasing distributed lighting desks along the lines of the Hog3. Madmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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