audio Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hi Following on from Mark Payne's post in Show your Show, I've been thinking about situation where an M7CL is an acceptable desk. Specifically, our 1000 capacity club is hopefully up for a system upgrade this summer (present thinking is a Nexo Geo S line array) and at present is controlled by a XL3 40 channel desk which will end up on monitor duty post upgrade. The desk has insert issues and will drop inserts occasionally which it a tad annoying and very unacceptable when we have visiting engineers. So much so that I put it on monitors this weekend and hired in another desk for FOH duties as we had 7 bands on and I didn't want the hassle. I went with an analogue desk as a pm5D was too much money and I was worried that one specific band's engineer would be upset seeing an M7CL on FOH when there was an XL3 on monitor duty, as the XL3 is seen as a better desk, bigger to stand behind and more 'rock and roll' than an M7. I think my feeling on this is that I'd happily use an M7CL in a venue of that size regardless of the monitor desk but I'm not sure if we should be looking for a better FOH desk than the M7. It has been suggested that a Digidesign venue could be obtained for not a lot more that an M7 (trust me on this, I don't want a pricing debate) and seems to be a lot more desk. What I'd like to know is would you, as a visiting engineer, be happy in a 1000 capacity venue with an M7CL at FOH and an XL3 on monitors or would you rather the order was reversed (XL3 FOH and M7 on monitors)... as I could try and get the inserts fixed by sending the desk to Midas. Thanks for any inputJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfrog Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Having only used an M7CL which is by all means a fantastic desk - I really cant see any problem - newer digital desks have got smaller etc...It's the sound that counts not the size of the desk. Having used several midas desks - venice & verona mainly - I'd suggest that you get it fixed asap!!! - There all great desks and I wouldn't like to see one go to waste! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nag1_uk Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 If ypu send it to Midas to get fixed it might be cheaper to send it for a service as I believe they should fix any faults they find as part of the service. This is what a friend of mine did anyway! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Ok, thats all well and good, and I do plan to get the Midas fixed eventually but the four figure price tag for a Midas service can wait for a while if the desk is going to be on monitors only which means I can buy other things we need more urgently like some new CDJ 1000s. My question isn't really about getting the Midas fixed, its about the acceptability of an M7CL instead of a Midas or Digidesign Venue at FOH in the venue really... benefits I see are having all outboard etc whenever you need it (vs 10 comps, 10 gates and a rack of KT360s for the Midas), smaller size, recall etc but this is all going up against one of the best analogue desks in the world and I don't know if its the right decision to make - you'll never get a rider that says 'no analogue' (not yet anyway) but I see plenty that say 'no digital' or unreasonably demand an extra hour for soundchecking if they have to use a digital desk as apparently 'compression on groups' is harder using an M7 I see the Digi Venue come through our touring venue all the time and know that it is seen as at least comparable if not better to the XL3 but I've not seen the M7 come through yet other than for a support act or two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoLiEn Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I'd be more than happy to be greeted with an M7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlinford Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I think to some extent, you answer your own question by telling us what you see coming through the venue with visiting companies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mervaka Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Having only used an M7CL which is by all means a fantastic desk - I really cant see any problem - newer digital desks have got smaller etc...It's the sound that counts not the size of the desk. Having used several midas desks - venice & verona mainly - I'd suggest that you get it fixed asap!!! - There all great desks and I wouldn't like to see one go to waste! Alanjust remember the venice and verona etc are of different roots to the heritage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 If you have a lot of touring engineers through I'd be cautious about the Venue. While the M7CL is designed to be "analogue engineer friendly" and would be acceptable to most engineers even if they have no specific digital experience, the Venue is a lot harder to just "walk up to and mix". As for how acceptable the M7CL is, I'm always happy to find one--but I should stress that I tend to work on theatre and corporate stuff, not the club circuit so take my opinion with a pinch of salt. Finally, I know you said to "trust you" on the pricing but do check exactly what you're getting from Digidesign for the M7 price. As a company they have a habit of disabling a lot of the useful plugins and effects and selling them to you later once you've be sucked in by the low base price. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 We now see quite a lot of these going through the venue - I've seen one company AP Audio flogging almost their entire stock of big A&H desks off, and replacing them with these Yamahas on both FOH and Monitor duties. All their people seem very pleased with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyBrooks Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 If you are getting any half well known bands through, stump up the little extra, and get the digidesign, the extra investment now will be worthwhile, and the desk is in a whole different league... the m7, good as it is, is not really a top flight desk, though, have taken it out as a main front of house desk on a MAJOR arena tour, the digidesign just blows it away, and indeed, blows the midas away... save up and buy two! I will now get flammed down by people slating this desk, but they will be wrong.... m7 not quite fit for purpose in a busy venue, digidesign is. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Not slating the Venue at all (if I have any criticism, it's of Digidesign as a company--they can be difficult to deal with) but I think the big consideration for a receiving house has to be the user base. I only know two or three professional audio guys who are really familiar with the Venue but I know a large number who could walk up and use an M7CL. Maybe we need a second question: from the point of view of the USER BASE, how acceptable is a Venue in a receiving house. (This isn't just academic for me. The biggest local theatre here is due to replace it's Midas H2000 next year and Digidesign is making a big push to supply a Venue here too.) Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirch Sound Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Personally I would be perfectly happy to find an M7Cl. The fact that so many people know how to use them, even people working on an LS9 can get to grips with an M7 pretty quickly. For me, this would sell it. If I walked into your venue and found the Digidesign, I would say 'Yay, a Digidesign', shortly folowd by 'Crap, I dont know how to use one of those' as I think most other sound techs would here, unless they have been out on a large tour/spent a week in a large theatre. For me the fact that im in my comfort zone with the desk im using would be my priority over quality personally, as long as were not comparing Cadac to Behringer. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 Well, I think people on the whole seem to see the M7 as an acceptable desk and that relieves me quite a lot. I think it will all work out ok with one and FOH and I'm going to look into trading in the Midas against another, I figure an XL3 plus good outboard rack must be getting on towards the £13-14k mark... My feeling regarding the engineers who say 'no digital' is that really, in a 1000 capacity venue on a tour that they aren't touring gear on can't really make that kind of demand in a modern age as they should now really be able to handle an M7 after a quick introduction, especially with someone next to them to help with any routing/effects questions they may have. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirch Sound Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 My feeling regarding the engineers who say 'no digital' is that really, in a 1000 capacity venue on a tour that they aren't touring gear on can't really make that kind of demand in a modern age as they should now really be able to handle an M7 after a quick introduction, especially with someone next to them to help with any routing/effects questions they may have.And lets be honest, there not the hardest desks to get your head around either. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Not really the circle I move in, but how many bigger name bands tour without their own kit, using the house systems? I'm interested in finding out the kind of venues where specific kit is required. Are we talking here specific music venues rather than theatres? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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