Going back to basics

[johndenim]

Over the years, I have collected various pieces of equipment to try to improve my live sound.

The kit I have been using recently is:

 

Yamaha mg16/6fx

Behringer ultragraph pro 31band geq

zoom effects unit (not keen on the fx on desk)

Studiomaster (rsd) 1500w amp for tops

Peavey 2600 1800w amp for subs

peavey impulse 12" tops

peavey 118xt 18" subs

 

I have recently bought a Dynacord powermate, (1400w) to try to improve on my sound.

 

My new config is, desk, main outs, into 2600, out from xover into mixer inserts, out from amp into subs.

Thus putting 150hz upwards on my tops, 150 downwards onto subs.

 

I did include my eq unit, but for some reason it did not sound as 'warm and low' as without.

To be fair I used unbalanced signals (jacks) rather than XLR's so maybe I should try again?

 

Can anyone recommend adding anything to improve further?

Maybe a lms? or a better eq unit?

The sound now I would say is far better than before, and the notch filters on the dynacord enable me to ring out the mics quite well, but would I be better off with a good eq unit?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

John Denim.

[Rob_Beech]

You can't deny that a better eq will give a better sound, but perhaps there are others things to look at.

 

Whilst you're there, check the settings on the eq. Some of these have variable high and low pass filters, check these aren't limiting the bandwidth.

 

Pop up and try a DN360 out if you get time, I'm only up the road.

[johndenim]

Cheers Rob.

 

I have set the band pass on both high and low to 30khz and 10hz, which is as low and high as it will go.

I doubt if I will get 10hz of sub though!

Or even 30khz of top end! Can humans even hear that frequency?!

 

Don't think I would have the funds to pay this for a graphic eq,

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DN360B/

 

Maybe a LMS?

 

John Denim.

[berry120]

Can humans even hear that frequency?!

 

No. It varies, but the usual figures are usually quoted as between 20Hz - 20KHz. It has been known for people to hear a bit above that but I don't think anywhere near as high as 30!

 

Michael

[johndenim]

Yea Michael, maybe only our canine friends!

 

I would think the lower end is more 'felt' than heard , which IS something that I personally like, not muddy low end though,

a nice 'thump' is what, around 20-30 hz?

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong!

 

PS any advice on any outboards that would help?

 

John Denim.

[paulears]

I'm not so sure if it's worth thinking about improving the graphic when the weak link in the system is the speakers. I'm not going to knock the Peaveys - I had one a few years ago, and a friend has a big one - BUT - they're not the smoothest sounding cabs in the world. Maybe if budget is available you could point it towards some other speakers.

[berry120]

You're right that the extremes of the lower end are felt more than heard. Right down there they might not be heard at all!

 

I never like offering things as facts when I'm slightly unsure. Which I am - so take this as a suggestion that might be shot down by others with more knowledge than me.

 

But on the 20-30 boundary things will still be felt more rather than heard. The lower range of most bass instruments (bass guitar / bass drum) is usually around the 50 mark. If you're looking for a low end thump, well there's no set frequency, it depends what you're mixing! The bass drums I've dealt with have usually give a nice thump at about 100, I've found. But in each situation things will be different.

 

When I'm in a familiar setup / room, I generally know what frequencies are prone to feedback, what ones will add x or cut y from this that or the other. When I'm not, I'll bear in mind rather wide frequency bands that I've got an idea might achieve a certain effect, then I'll basically experiment around to find what in particular gets the effect I want. Then again, I'm far from the most experienced person in sound on this forum, so others might think completely differently!

[Bobbsy]

As very often happens I'm going to agree the paulears on this. There are subtle improvements to be gained in any sound system by using better electronic components in "the middle". A really good mixer will have better mic preamps and give you a "warmer" sound. Better EQ should be more controllable and may just "sound better" and so on and so forth. However, these improvements will, as I said, be relatively subtle.

 

The BIG differences in any system are to do with the transducers: the parts that change sound waves to electricity (i.e. your microphones) and then electricity back to sound (your speakers). If you've ever auditioned a pile of different speakers one after another, you'll realise there is nothing subtle about the differences that you get from changes here. Again, I don't want to Peavey bash...there are certainly worse out there. However there are also far better--and for a big improvement to your system, this is the direction I'd eventually be looking.

 

Bob

[johndenim]

Thanks all, I know my cabs are not the best and am looking to replace.

I have another post discussing this very subject.

 

So the general thought would be to keep in the EQ?

 

John Denim.

[lightsource]

I did include my eq unit, but for some reason it did not sound as 'warm and low' as without.

To be fair I used unbalanced signals (jacks) rather than XLR's so maybe I should try again?

 

Can anyone recommend adding anything to improve further?

Maybe a lms? or a better eq unit?

The sound now I would say is far better than before, and the notch filters on the dynacord enable me to ring out the mics quite well, but would I be better off with a good eq unit?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

John Denim.

 

Quite simply, look at the weakest link in the chain, and that... is the starting point. You know you're gear, and what it's capable of......so you should also know where it's lacking.......

 

That's the starting point.

 

Purchase new gear to shore up the weakest link in the chain