EQ, Compression, Limits & Gates

[pattonaudio]

How it going? Hope this is a hot topic like the SX300 one ** laughs out loud **

 

I am courious really about how everyone goes about setting their eq (31 band graphic)for every gig (with out measurement mic), normally I would start with the first mid frequency set it to 0 then adjust each freq until it get just a wee bit louder than the previous freq. I then do the HF and leave LF to last.

 

I also would like to know how everyone sets their Crompressors, Limiters & gates.

 

Cheers

Richard

[Matt Riley]

For mons, then I grab the lead vocal mic, chuck the gain at 12 o clock, make sure the GEQ is in and turned on (including high pass filters if necessary), then stand in front of the wedge saying 'check 1-2' annoyingly, getting a someone else to raise the volume till it starts to ring, I then pull that freq out as much as is necessary, before repeating till I get the desired volume level. Then I'll take the mic off the stand and do a quick check to see whether anything takes off when I'm holding the mic, before doing a quick sweep test (mic about 1 ft away from wedge pointing away from it, put hand in front of mic, see if anything too drastic happens. If I'm working with beatboxers then I'll see how bad it is when I cup the mic as well.

 

At FOH I generally take a beta 58 and do similar, taking out a couple of ringing/nasty resonating frequencies, then shape the sound a little bit so I'm happy with the sound of my voice through the rig.

 

M

[Bobbsy]

If I've read the original post properly (and I've tried 3 times) then the method described would result in the classic "smiley face" EQ setting--which is exactly how NOT to do it.

 

In order to give a meaningful answer to how you SHOULD set a GEQ, we first need to know what you're using it for. There are typically two distinct reasons why you would have a 31 band GEQ on your main output: one is to optimise your system output for the room acoustics (i.e. make it sound "good") and the other is feedback control. These two purposes can sometimes be at odds with each other--and the methods to use are different.

 

For optimisation (without aid of an RTA--and sometimes even with one) it's largely done by ear. Typically I'd play a CD that a) I know well and b) is similar in nature to the show you will be mixing. At that stage, it's a matter of listening to the sound and, when you hear something you don't like, adjusting the EQ. However, that's easier said than done and knowing what to adjust comes with practice. There are several books I've seen that have basic charts of what frequencies to tweak to cure certain problems, but to a large extent this has to come from experience. Two hints: you're likely to want to cut more than boost and, when it doubt, leave it alone.

 

For feedback prevention, you'll probably use a technique known as "ringing out". A search on that will give detailed instructions but basically you'll be opening all your mics, pushing system gain until you hear that "ringing" noise that happens just before feedback, identifying the frequency, then cutting it by 6dB or so. Push the gain again until the next "ring", find THAT frequency, and apply another cut. The more you do this, the louder you can push things...but the more you mess with your sound. Typically, 3 or 4 goes is the limit you want.

 

As for comps, limiters and gates, these are things to use when you have a specific purpose, not just because they're there. Comps and limiters in particular I tend to set by numbers (to achieve a goal) rather than by ear. I'd suggest a good starting point would be to read the RANE NOTES on Dynamics Processing (scroll down the page on the link given). This should give a decent overview as to what does what and how to adjust it.

 

Bob

[pattonaudio]

If I've read the original post properly (and I've tried 3 times) then the method described would result in the classic "smiley face" EQ setting--which is exactly how NOT to do it.

 

my method noramally gives a good replication of the sine wave with prob freq dropped as much as need to give the sound the clarity needed for the venue and to prevent fbq. Normally I play a song that I know well, but for some reason I never thought to play music of a similar genre that I will be doing that night.

[Rob_Beech]

A system can and should be setup towards the program material that is played through it. More alterations are needed on some systems than others.

[djstuntman]

Why use Graphic EQ at all, multi band parametric is the way to go, or even paragraphic. Graphic EQ units on their own are rather limited to 32 exact frequencies, at least a paragraphic EQ you can selct the frequency a little up or down.

[Rob_Beech]

That's what I get asked to put in a rack for people.

 

I get more people saying DN360 than <insert industry standard parametric eq model number here>

 

I fully agree that you have more flexibility with the parametric.

[Bobbsy]

Fully agree Rob.

 

Actually, I find it's not unusual to have some form of parametric (maybe stand alone or maybe built into an LMS) for the master set up, then give the touring guy a 31 band GEQ (set to flat to start with) as his "grab and fix the feedback" unit.

 

Bob

[johndenim]

I would ask why you would need to compress/limit/gate live sound in the first place?

 

Is this for individual instruments or for the whole mix? :P

 

 

John Denim.

[gav8298]

I put a limiter on our school system for 2 reasons-

 

1. its really low power and I always end up pushing things a bit far sometimes to match vocals to any drums. saves clipping on the amp.

2. if any kids are using it without me being there, it saves the system from blowing as they push the master real high.

 

it's amazing how much you an squeeze from a 1k system in a 300 seater space sometimes :P

[Bobbsy]

I would ask why you would need to compress/limit/gate live sound in the first place?

 

Is this for individual instruments or for the whole mix? :P

 

Gav has already mentioned one common use of a limiter: one locked in an inaccessible rack can protect your system from the excesses of over-enthusiastic students/DJs/Student DJs. With looming H&S legislation about exposure to even moderate SPLs, I can see this practice becoming more common in venues to ensure compliance with the rules.

 

However, that sort of application is probably the only time I'd use dynamics processing on the entire mix. Generally (for me at least) compressor/limiters and gates are used on specific channels (or occasionally groups) only--and this use is the exception, not the rule.

 

Typically, I might sometimes put a comp/limiter on a particular vocal to help keep them "above the mire" compared to the instruments and also to even out less-than-perfect mic technique. If there are a number of backing vocalists, I sometimes "group" these channels and apply a single comp/limiter to the group for the same sorts of reason and to keep them slightly below the lead vocal.

 

As for gates, the main use in live sound is on various drum mics. Gating some or all of these mics can give a distinctive, "punchy" sound as each channel opens and closes as particular drums are struck. If you're even in a situation to have lots of gates available (for example if you rent a digital board) it's worth spending a few minutes playing with this one to see if you like it.

 

Bob

[Kevin Ross]

I always gate the all the drum mics I use on a kit to try to clear up the mix as much as possible. I like to run with the theory of trying to get a nice clean mix by having as few open mics on the stage as possible. Another example of this is on a brass section that does not get used all the time I might put an expander on that mic and maybe knock 6-10db when the instrument is not playing.

 

 

 

I would also second the use of a compressor on a vocalist who is very dynamic in their levels to try to keep them sitting nicely in the mix.

 

 

 

But I guess as with most things its horses for courses, I mainly mix mainly rock shows so I have adapted my methods to suit them if I was mixing jazz or folk I might not gate the drums to let more ambient noise through.

[johndenim]

I have tried using a compressor on live vocals,

( a solo act was using a sennhieser headset mic)

But don't they have tendancy for feedback problems? The lack of mic control was the obvious reason for using the compressor, but it lost the 'feel'

of the vocal, and the vocalist complained the she was "shouting her head off and not much coming out".

 

I tried to explain the reason why, I had not set the reduction to be very high, even attack/release settings and soft knee.

 

Don't want to go OT, but do acts like Madonna, britney etc who use headsets have their vocal compressed?

I would have thought so? hhmmmmm?

 

John Denim.

[mervaka]

I thought britney lipsynced? :)

 

what ratio were you using? I tend be subtle and not to go above 2:1 for vocals. at the end of the day however, compressors are a poor substitute for mic technique.

 

[offtopic]

I've seen some vocalists around with piss poor mic technique, of whom most refuse to learn any sort of technique, saying there's nothing wrong with their voice.. (duh)

 

I do wish those college singing lessons encompassed vocal technique as part of their curriculum.

[/offtopic]

[smalljoshua]

[offtopic]

I do wish those college singing lessons encompassed vocal technique as part of their curriculum.

[/offtopic]

 

Even more :)

 

Mine do.

 

Josh