After a new projector

[tr7ster]

I'm looking at replacing our ProjectionDesign F3, as it's 3 years old now, has crashed a few times recently and the finance agreement is up soon!

 

It sits in the control room of a 160-seat lecture theatre, where 98% of the display content is PowerPoint. The other 2% comprises occasional video clips, DVD & VHS playback, plus some videoconferencing. The F3 is just about bright enough (5500 lumens) but suffers from poor colour accuracy, and a lot of our slides contain medical images where this is pretty important. The screen is a Sewart Flimscreen Greyhawk.

 

I'm after something a little brighter (6500 lumen maybe) that is going to address the colour issue - I don't need any specific medical calibration, just something that is going to output what I put into it! My current thinking is that either LCD or 3-chip DLP might be the way to go, depending on cost - budget is around £13K, maybe a bit more to take a lens into account. I'll absolutely need CVBS, S-video, Component, RGBHV, RS232, and DVI & Ethernet are big desirables.

 

Anyone got any recommendations?

 

Ben

[stillgoingstrong]

Hi,

 

Could you let us know the throw distance and screen size?

 

Thanks

Phil

[Jon@Edric-av]

Hi,

 

The PLC-XF70 could be a possibility but obviously as Phil says

 

 

Could you let us know the throw distance and screen size?

 

Thanks,

[tr7ster]

Hi,

 

Could you let us know the throw distance and screen size?

 

Thanks

Phil

 

Sorry, should have added it in my original post!

 

Screen size is 11'x8', throw distance is approx 46'6".

 

Ben

[lukemh]

I would advise against using LCD on powerful projectors, because as they are prone to burning on the panels. your budget suggests that you could reach low end 3 chip DLP, and I would whole heartedly reccomend this way forward.

 

you are quite right in the weakness of the single chip DLP is colour accuracy, something we feel we have made vast improvements on on our chassis. but neverless I feel the need to give you a balanced reply and not the sales pitch......

 

I am surprised you are getting away with this currently if you are displaying medical images, for which we have a whole division setup for. PM me if you would like to know any example sites.

 

I can give you examples of 3 chip DLP, LCD and single chip DLP all being used in this enviroment, and rather the voice of me sometimes it is better to speak customer to customer, so that you can find out the 'real' pros and cons....

 

of course speak to any Barco dealer for commercial pricing and details. I believe a couple lurk on these boards :-)

 

Regards

 

Luke

[Pete McCrea]

And cue on such dealer.... Gonna be quick as I'm tired.

 

Ultimately screen size and throw ain't too critical as you'll be able to get the right lens to suit.

 

CLM R10+ might just fit the bill. Compared to a Barco SLM R12 12,000 lumen 3 chipper, and Sanyo/Christie LX120 12,000 lumen LCD the CLM R10 held it's own very well. The yellows didn't seem quite as vivid as the 3 Chip DLP machine, but otherwise the colours were very similar. The LCD machine was least favoured by the client, and they decided to go for the CLM R10+. The machine is used by the client to show horse racing, so colour accuracy and resolution weren't the key factors, but the build quality and design as well as lower noise levels helped to sway the decision along with the puchiness of the light output.

 

I have some images from the shoot out lurking somewhere if your interested.

 

It does however only have two input slots- a 5 BNC for CV through to RBGHV and DVI or SDI depending on cards selected, so it might require a scaler on the front end to sort the inputs to get it onto the DVI input and neaten up the switching between sources. The Network port allows for full and easy control via the Barco software that is easy to use, and should you ever feel the need- a DMX port (but quite who'd ever trust the control of a projector to a lampie I don't know....)

 

I can't speak for any of the other 'Medical Imaging' stuff Barco produce, as I only know their events stuff. The CLM R10+ lists at £15225 excluding a lens, which will be about another £2k.

 

Barco are usually very helpful with arranging demo's should you want to see the product. PM Me of you need more help.

[David Lee]

And the reason why medical people still love 32mm slides - resolution and more importantly colour reproduction. One company I freelance for still has a stack of Kodaks as a dentist loves hiring them with dove dissolve units.

[Stuart91]

I would advise against using LCD on powerful projectors, because as they are prone to burning on the panels.

 

This bit of Luke's post caught my attention, as I've been around quite a few high powered LCD projectors but never experienced any kind of "burning". Has anyone else out there come across this problem?

[Pete McCrea]

The Organic compound in the actual LCD panels is damaged over time by the intense heat produced by the lamps- something like an XF45 will have 4 300w Lamps a foot or so from the LCD panels, along with the other electronics meaning they don't stay that cool. It's more of an issue over a year or two rather than a show by show basis. It can make it harder to match two LCD Projectors, even of similar burn times due to the ageing of the LCD's and polarising filters before the Panels. They can be replaced, but on some machines some of the filters are brazed onto the LCD prism, making replacement hard to do economically.

 

3 Chip DLP relies on a prism to spilt the light to the Chips, so they don't have any filters to degrade, and the single chip relies on the colour wheel for the R, G and B channels. As they're a dichroic they are known to deal with the heat better.

[spove]

Don't forget the HD8 from Barco also, a little more cash but it is a full HD machine and if you are doing medical jobs they usually go for the high res stuff more.

 

Other alternative is the Panasonic D7700 7000 ansi SXGA+ and 3 chip DLP usually a little cheaper then the Barco R10+

 

PM me if you require any more info.

[tr7ster]

Thanks folks, some great info coming - keep it up!

 

Luke, message sent to your contact - many thanks.

 

The Panasonic PT-D7700EK definately caught my eye - I've heard a couple of good things about their newer range of install projectors. Having had a quick look at the brochure it looks as though I could only have either DVI or Ethernet as both are an optional board, and there only seems to be one expansion slot - is this right? Not disasterous, but I am looking at getting all my projectors networked in the near future, and the DVI would be useful as I intend to add a switch to select between high-def videoconferencing and DVI output from a high spec PC.

 

The Barco CLM R10+ looks to be a likely possibility - I'd be interested to see how it would compare to a 3-chip where colour reproduction is concerned. It would certainly be plenty bright enough for my application! The HD8 looks good too, but having googled it I think I may have a difficult job convincing the powers that be to go that far.

 

Anyone much experience of Christie's 3-chip DLP machines? Looking at their website there are one or two that look like they would fit the bill - DS+6K, HD6K etc. Of course I've no idea what prices these come in at, so I may be way over budget.

 

Ben

[Pete McCrea]

The HD8 is nearly £5k more than the CLM R10+. One company locally have gone for the Panasonic (PTDW10000 I believe) over the Barco's on the strength of the true HD DLP chip. That said they aren't cheap machines, but my memories of them from ISE in 2007 were that they were good machines with good images, but designed for the install rather than rental market, so suiting the OP's needs better. The List on the 7700EK is slightly higher than the CLM, but you might be able to secure the Panny for less.

 

As for Christie's 3 Chip DLP, they aren't the cheapest, and I would be happy to bet a pint of Guinness that they won't be cheaper than the CLM- I'd be able to tell you if they hadn't reshuffled their website and moved the price lists around.

[Johnparrack]

agree with suggestions here, its all more which badge u prefer...my preference would be 8k christie or the Panasonic 10k. I prefer the christie optics over the barco. Christie hd12 is a superb full HD machine. I'm currently sat next to 2 Barco HD18's which do look very nice, but the optics do let them down a bit. (plus the new software takes a couple of minutes to work out if u haven't seen it before..** laughs out loud **)

[spove]

Just did a quick search on Google and found some information talking about some projector shoot outs happening with I think Panasonic, Barco and Sanyo.

 

PM me and I will send you the link to the site can't wok out how to put it on here.

 

A