Live recording a small band in big hall!

[allymoss]

I am a friend of this guy who has a band and they asked me to record them becuase they want to make a CD.

 

They will be on the stage, they have vocals, they have drums, bass guitar and electric guitar.

 

I have overheads (9) and a drum mic set, and a few mics. I also have some DI boxes, special ones for bass and electric guitars.

 

I was going to record it onto a laptop with single stereo input (AHHHHH!) THEY ARE NOT VERY GOOD ANYWAY! All the mics that we use would go into a mixer and out to my laptop. At the begining of each song, we would do a bit of trial and error to get levels right for drums and other instruments.

 

Now, what should I do. I don't know whether to plug guitars straight to DI boxes becuase they wont be able to hear themselves so probably not a good idea, drum mics, are they needed and put volume on those channels right down to get the quality. Should I face the rest of the band the other way so their mics dont pic up the drums as much, what should I do with overheads? I can face them in different directions.

 

Any ideas ASAP would help.

[paulears]

well, this topic from less than a week ago seems to cover most problems you'll have.

 

To record the gig, you can do it properly, or bodge it - your choice, and if the idea is to record direct through your sound card on a laptop in stereo, it's is going to be compromised already - unless you have a decent, low noise, soundcard input!

 

If you DI the sources at a point after any processing such as guitar pedals or processors has taken place, all will be well - you'll just 'sniff' their audio and they won't notice. If the band play old swing music, then you might get away with an overhead pair on the drums, but if you want a rock sound, then miking the kit up is important. If you can get a room nearby - even a store room (I used a damp beer cellar once) - then you can monitor on a set of proper speakers, and hear what it really sounds like. If you do it in the room, then you need enclosed headphones.

 

So it can be done, but it depends on what quality you really want. The quality of the band isn't important. A good recording of a crap band is better than a crap recording of a good one!

[allymoss]

Not really, slightly different circumstances

 

It is a rocky band. Any other help would be appreciated. I have some decent headphones to use but wont be perfect. I am going to try some different techniques tommorow

[paulears]

What exactly are you hoping to get? If you let us have some specifics perhaps we can answer them?

[allymoss]

I am trying to get a good quality recording for them, they want to put on CD and show friends and listen to themselves.

 

Any advice before wednesday!

[MarkPAman]

This line:

At the beginning of each song, we would do a bit of trial and error to get levels right for drums and other instruments.

makes me think this is not a gig with an audience. If so you can mic up everything as you would for a large gig, and mix for the two track recording, not the room sound.

 

Or, you could mic up what is needed for the best room sound and record to your computer with a stereo pair in the best position.

[lightsource]

I've done this sort of thing before, by having my daughters (3 piece rock) band in 1 room fully mic and DI'd up, a 24 channel multicore to a mixing desk (it's the GL2800, Paul, yes I use it for all-sorts ;) ) in a different room, where I do a mix, and sent it to a single stereo input on a PC.

 

All tracks are recorded as an instrumental, with the vocals added later in a more controlled environment (quiet room, with the singer getting the music via headphones). This then allows you to add eq and compression on the vocals on their own, and 'fit them into the mix better' providing your software allows you to do it.

 

There's mixed results, it's very difficult to get a good mix, without all the pieces being in place. Also the playback speakers to check the recording are very important. Quite often I find that low frequency sounds, ie Bass Drum etc, are a little distorted, and the high frequency sounds are too loud for the mix, such as the Hi Hats, or Cymbals. It really is a trial and error approach.

 

One question I could ask, is will you be in the same room, or a seperate side room. It would be much better if you could isolate youself from the noize of the band.

[gherriott]

Depending on how he band want to record it, and what program you are recording onto, a method I have used in the past is using Cubase, record the drums, bass and guitar first. Next record the vocals and any other instruments. This will ensure that your other mics do not pick up your drummer, allowing you to directly mix each section of the drum kit, then the rest of the band. Afterwards, do a full mix track using the overheads, and then use this in the final mix at your discretion. This allows you to have that ambiance sound, but only as much as you want! Drums are a pain in the ass when it comes to recording, 90% of the time they need deamplification! Hope this makes sense.

 

Greg

[paulears]

Plenty of ideas here - all with merits, but the OP gave us a few facts that we've kind of skated over. We have all drawn a few conclusions.

The initial idea was to do a live recording of a not too hot band using audio techniques unlikely to produce much in the way of a high fidelity result.

 

The the OP changes his mind and says they want a good quality recording?

 

Based only on my own experience, I'd say "it's doomed, doomed".

 

If you want good quality, then you are going to have to do it properly. If you bodge it, the sound will suffer, and despite the poor performance from the band, it will be your fault.

 

There are some kinds of band that can be recorded live with basic kit and a bit of effort and planning - but these usually have an internal balance of their own, and any amplification is just to make them louder, not rebalance them - which is what most electronic bands need.

 

Again, from experience, without any form of proper monitoring the end result is very difficult to assess. As the band volume in the room goes up, this gets worse. Even with decent, high quality headphones, it is very difficult to balance the lower end against the top end. So the first time you can assess how wll you have done, is by listening afterwards. It's better if you can monitor somewhere else. So another room, or even in the van is far better.

 

Kit wise the OP says he has 9 overheads???? a drum set and other mics and DIs - so presuming a separate mixer and some splitters can be sourced, then a live mix, BBC radio style is perfectly possible direct to a CD recorder, or some other kind of proper recording device, in nice decent quality stereo.

 

The way the topic has developed leaves me very confused as to what on earth is going on - it's kind of evolved into something else as the OP responds to replies. Very odd.

[allymoss]

I like the idea about recording drums and guitars first then vocals in separate room. I want the best possible recording although it doesn't have to be perfect. I am going to mic up the drums and guitars and mix them, then put them into my stereo input on laptop. I will record vocals later.One last question, shall I DI the guitars and as I record, play the sound over main system so they can hear what they are playing or get the guitars plugged into their own amps then take the "out" from the amp to a DI box then to mixer?Please stop posting about my incompetence! This post was to get ideas and naturally I have chnaged my ideas, is this a problem?? I am just getting the best ideas and seeing what I can do with the equipment I have got!Oh, and by the way, I will do some tests before just 20 second recordings of the band to get levels right for drums, guitars etc. I will have to be in same room for this so it does make it very awkward!

[MarkPAman]

You've said that it's a rocky band. For rock (and other things) a big part of the guitar's sound is produced by the amp, so putting a mic on the guitar cab is much the best way to go.

 

If you're completely stuck for mics and the amp has a "simulated speaker output" or some such thing then you may get a decent sound by putting a DI on this. An "ordinary" line output will not give you what you want.

 

A DI on the bass will normally be OK though.

[Ben Langfeld]

Please stop posting about my incompetence! This post was to get ideas and naturally I have chnaged my ideas, is this a problem?? I am just getting the best ideas and seeing what I can do with the equipment I have got!

 

People are trying to help you, but your first post was about a live recording, and now you are talking about recording as if you are in a (cheap) studio. What are you actually doing? We're not psychic, you know!

[allymoss]

They are doing a live performance to a select few people so not a gig really but not studio which makes it difficult. I have spoken to them today and they have said they can do a separate performance on their own.

 

The situation so far

 

They will be playing in a smallish room (not studio, foam padded or anything) and want to be recorded to put on a CD for themselves.

 

Your advice has been extremely helpful as I have discussed it today with them and they seem happy with recording the drums and guitar together and vocals separately.

 

All I am really looking for are more ideas with sound, mic in front of guitar amps etc.

 

I would like to thank you for your help. Sorry for not making everything totally clear at the beginning.

 

I have plenty of mics although not many good quality ones. I have got a few drum mics though which the band want to use.

[Ben Langfeld]

You'd probably be best just mic'ing everything up in the way you usually would live.

[allymoss]

I will play with a few ideas you have posted. I am still open minded. I will see what I can do, I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to this topic.