Live Recording

[Ste69]

I've recently been asked by a band to produce a live album with them at a gig they're playing. I've never really had any experience of live recording before. Would the best way to do this just be taking the signal from the mixer from the phono out and plugging it into my laptop's external sound card and record it on CEP (should be changing to Sonar 6.2 soon). I understand to do this properly you need to have a separate mixer for separate recording levels etc but that isn't an option unfortunately unless it's really simple to do. I'm thinking of just recording their whole gig and splitting the audio into the separate tracks and do some minor mastering. Is this a good way to do things? What are your views about live recording?

[Shez]

Five ways to do it really.

1. Record stereo out the desk
   
2. Set up an recording mix on auxes on the desk
   
3. multitrack off the desk
   
4. Split before the desk and multitrack / mix live
   
5. Stereo ambient mics in the room
   

How well number one works depends on the size of gig and band line up. Anything that's not mic'ed will be quiet / sound distant on the recording. The balance between instruments will sound wrong on the recording too as anything acoustically loud will be quiet on the recording and anything acoustically quiet (or silent like keyboards) will be very loud.

 

Number 2 may be possible for you but depends on the desk and how much time you have to set up.

 

Three and four probably aren't options for you.

 

Five might be a good bet but again depends on the band, type of music and the venue.

[paulears]

To add a bit to Shez's useful comments - if you have a multi-track recorder, then the direct outs method works best as you can re-eq, balance and blend all the sources you had at the gig. All you need to do is ensure everything is miked, including the audience - then sort it out later. Recording the output from the PA can be excellent - BUT much depends on what is going through it.

 

To explain, something that happened to me recently is worth repeating. We have a 1200 seater, all on one level auditorium. Music show in, FOH and on-stage monitor mixers, with all sources split on stage. During the interval (thank God) their soundcraft mixer power supply died. A spare on the truck, but thanks to the over zealous local council, the truck is on a car park, 15 minutes walk from the venue. So a hasty repatch of as many inputs to their desk into ours as I could in the few minutes left. This was when I realised that virtually all of the instruments were actually coming from monitors. The second half of the show had 6 faders in use, vocals and an electro-acoustic guitar. Even though patched in, I had no need for any electric guitar, drums and keys - their on-stage monitor volume made them unnecessary. So, if in this case, we'd tried to record the PA mix, the on-stage vlume would have wrecked it - all that would have been recorded would have been the vocals and guitar - useless as a recording balance.

 

This happens very often - although perhaps not as extreme as this one. Guitar amps and keys are often heard by the audience direct from the speaker - maybe a little extra is provided by he PA, but in small to mid size venues, added PA assistance may not be required.

 

The other option Shez gave is a mix via the auxes. This will give you the chance to add in those missing sources, but often it has to be by guesswork. Even decent closed headphones won't give you total silence to make critical decisions - but it can work.

 

Most big stadium shows now give the punters the chance to order a cd of the event, recorded direct from the desk. If you listen to them, despite some of the best kit available, there are compromises - lack of separation being the most obvious one - the audience noise being quite intrusive sometimes. No doubt lots of clever editing has taken place, but if the big acts have trouble, then at the lower end of the technology scale, we have the same issues, but with less scope to fix them!

[Rob_Beech]

PM Sent

[Ste69]

Thanks for the replies guys. At the venue, which is the varsity in wolvo, I'm presuming everything is miced up as I hear it's quite a roomy place but I've never been there before so I'm just guessing, correct me if I'm wrong please. But I think what I'll do, to save time and effort and because I'm not the sound engineer on that day I'm just doing a recording, is ask the band to turn their back line down a bit so more volume is coming from the PA. Mainly because I don't have an XLR splitter and there wouldn't be any space for my 32 channel mixer behind the sound desk. I shall explain this to the band and see what they think.

[jamesperrett]

If you have 4 inputs available then a combination of Shez's methods 1 and 5 can work remarkably well. I've even managed to successfully use 2 separate recorders for this - a minidisc recording the FOH sound and a camcorder picking up the ambient sound. It took a little time to sync things up afterwards though.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[avdavesound]

I've often recorded just a left and right mix off the desk. and most of the time they came out very well. but that was just something extra I'd give the band after the gig. but if your hired to record the gig its a different story I use a alesis hd24 and take a pre fader pre eq direct out fom the desk for each channel and set the gain @ a decent level to get into the mulitrack so that way you can just press record and just keep an eye on levels. if your stuck for channel count on the multi why not use groups? I find trying to mix off an aux very hard in a loud enviroment with headphones might sound great there and then but when you get home it sounds totally different.

[Ste69]

One of the problems is that I don't know what desk is at the venue so I don't know whether I will be able to take direct outs or not. Does anyone know what desk they use at the varsity in Wolvo?

[Ben Langfeld]

Try calling them. Only takes 30 seconds. Amazing, isn't it.

[avdavesound]

Try calling them. Only takes 30 seconds. Amazing, isn't it.

exactly. you don't go to a job unprepared! try this link tech spec

I found the spec in 10seconds on google! its a 24 ch soundcraft venue 2. so your sorted with direct outs. only prob I see is its a 200 capacity venue and tryin to mic up everything.

[Ste69]

Thanks for the info on the desk but I just read through the info and saw this:

 

*PLEASE NOTE* - The Varsity is currently upgrading equipment, and will have new monitors and a new desk installed by the end of September.

 

I've contacted them asking about the desk they have.

[noiseman]

Thanks for the info on the desk but I just read through the info and saw this:

 

*PLEASE NOTE* - The Varsity is currently upgrading equipment, and will have new monitors and a new desk installed by the end of September.

 

I've contacted them asking about the desk they have.

 

This is an interesting snippet from the venue's tech page:

 

"Stage is 14'7 by 14'9 by 19'9 by 19'9"

 

Wow, seems like they've discovered a fourth dimension!!

 

Ref the recording - use as many mics that you can. Mic up everything you want to hear and use direct outs that are pre-eq (most are), use no gates or comps (add that in the mix) and use an Alesis HD24. A digital desk is the best tool for this type of thing.

Get the gig done then spend the next week or so polishing/ editing. It will work if the performers are good and don't do a major howler, for example with an open stage an off pitch guitar will be heard to some extent in the vocal so it's not a simple thing to just do an overdub.

 

I did a similar thing with an 18 piece swing band and was knocked out by how well it went.

 

Good luck

[Ste69]

This is an interesting snippet from the venue's tech page:

 

"Stage is 14'7 by 14'9 by 19'9 by 19'9"

 

Wow, seems like they've discovered a fourth dimension!!

 

Hehe seems like they have a time traveling stage there :blink:

 

Ref the recording - use as many mics that you can. Mic up everything you want to hear and use direct outs that are pre-eq (most are), use no gates or comps (add that in the mix) and use an Alesis HD24. A digital desk is the best tool for this type of thing.

Get the gig done then spend the next week or so polishing/ editing. It will work if the performers are good and don't do a major howler, for example with an open stage an off pitch guitar will be heard to some extent in the vocal so it's not a simple thing to just do an overdub.

 

Yeah I think I will do that, take direct outs from the desk and mix them down. The only problem is that I can't record each instrument as separate tracks because I don't have a multi input sound card. Would it matter if I just recorded them as one track using the effects on the desk?

[Ben Langfeld]

If you don't have a soundcard capable of any more than mono line in, then all you can do is a mono recording. No point using direct outs, you can't separate the instruments, and you can't re-mix afterwards. If you only have a mono input, your best bet would be either to hire a HD24 or just take an aux from the desk.

[MarkPAman]

Well, you'll get a recording of whatever you mix on the day, with no chance of changing anything later. I assume you'll be in the same room as the band, so you'll want some headphones that block out the room sound as much as possible. It's never really possible to know what is being recorded at the time, as the low end will get through your phones anyway.

Do a test run in the soundcheck, listen back and make adjusments, then do it again.