Zoom Ellipsoidals

[Steve B.]

An interesting thread on ControlBooth.com from a bunch if USA members (myself being one of them) about whether or not to specify Source 4 zoom ellipsodals as stock equipment, or to specify standard fixed lens units with an assortment of lens tubes.

 

One comment made me want to query the UK and Euro BlueRoom members.

 

Do you folks see and/or use many of the S4 Zooms ?. And/or are there many theatres equipped typically with zoom units ?, or have you been moving away from what I assumed was a popular European lighting unit (CCT, ADB, etc...) more towards fixed optics S4's.

 

Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

 

 

SB

[daemon]

In Australia most venues seem to base their stock around Zooms, though more and more are using fixed S4's in certain positions. I'm not a huge fan of the S4 zooms, they seem clunky to me. I'd much prefer Pacific's. One large venue I work in uses Pacific's exclusively FOH and fixed S4's for overhead/booms/ladders which seems like the perfect compromise. I think the flexibility of Zoom profiles FOH is important as the positions are generally fixed.

[GridGirl]

New Zealand is very much the same as Australia in that zooms seem to be most common, generally Selecon Pacifics, the old ZS1200 or the Acclaim zooms. The only fixed-angle lenses that we own at work are the 90 degree lenses, and the only fixed-angle lanterns are the old Strand Pattern 23s and 264s. The two venues I worked at during my two years in England were much the same, except that it was Strand SLs rather than Pacifics as the profile stock.

[Grahame]

I think in the UK there is more of a 'history' of using zoom profiles than in the USA. Designers in the US are seemingly taught to plan everything around fixed-beam ellipsoidals - this goes way back to Stanley McCandless and 'method' lighting.

In the UK we didn't have good ellipsoidals until relatively recently, and we tend to have more experience of using zooms, and also fresnels - another unit that many American LD's don't seem to have heard of.

I have seen this approach carried to such an extreme that LX bars wre so crammed full of various fixed-angle Source 4's that you couldn't actually find room to focus any of them other than straight down, where a dozen fresnels and half a dozen zooms would have done a better job. I also came across a young American LD not that long ago who literally had no idea how to focus a zoom profile.

 

Personally I think zooms are far more versatile in most situations, especially if they're for lantern stock that will be used in a variety of situations. It is nearly always possible to get a soft focus on a zoom without resorting to frost.

[Ben Lawrance]

I think it has a swings and roundabouts element to it.

 

If the lanterns are for a fixed install, and never being re-focused (maybe re-pointed now and then), then I would say fixed.

 

If however, you are a rental house, hiring to all sorts of people in all sorts of venues, then why buy multiple lanterns, when really you only need buy the zoom.

 

 

2p in the pot

[Pete]

If however, you are a rental house, hiring to all sorts of people in all sorts of venues, then why buy multiple lanterns, when really you only need buy the zoom.

 

Not really,

I bet alot more fixed angled Source fours get rented each day than zooms.

[Just Some Bloke]

Most receiving houses in the UK find zooms to be extremely useful as every show that comes in will be different. Some will require full stage washes, some will require the space "smalling down" by not lighting right to the edges and creating a smaller space to work in, some will require lots of specials (which could be anything from a 10' square area to a pin spot) and others will bring their own kit and just need one or two units of in-house to cope with unexpected tidying-up (maybe due to the venue's own problems or the changing nature of the show during its run). Zooms can cope with anything. One day they can be focussed wide as a part of a wash and the next they can be narrow for a special.

 

Fixed beam is perfect for a specific show which is either touring with its own rig, or set for months/years in a West End theatre, but venues that take a different show every week/day often prefer the flexibility of zooms.

[mcnallca]

As the tech manager for my college space the other technicians and I just ordered a new stock of profiles (ellipsoidals to the Americans). We debated for several weeks whether or not to get zooms as with two productions on a week it would allow a quick change around. In the end we went for fixed beam soource four with a large selection of lens tubes on the basis that it is although would be easier for us to just stick to the zooms having a fixed beam stock means that all new designers need to learn the basics of beam angle to be able to do a proper design somthing that we have plenty of people willing to teach. One side effect is that we now see a much greater investment in frost than before but this is completly woirth it as it has effectively eliminated the lighting plot on the back of an envelope on the bus on the way in school of design. Also the optics in the source four fixed beams is just beautiful, You would be hard pressed to find better IMHO.

[paulears]

If I had the money, I'd swap all our fixed beam angle kit for zooms straight away. We do pretty well a stream of one-nighters, and zooms would really cut down the time focussing, and going up and down the ladder!

[Neil Hampson]

I would always go with the Zooms.

One other problem of the fixed unit with spare lens tubes, where do you store the lens tubes that aren't in use? If you buy say 20 S4's do you buy 20 19Deg, 20 26deg, 20 45deg etc. to cover all the ranges of a Zoom? If not what happens when you've already used all of the 26 deg tubes and you really need another. no problem for the zoom...

How easy is it to change a lens tube from the top of a Talley? I have never seen a price comparison but I can't imagine that a S4 Zoom costsa much more than a fixed s4 plus the 3 spare lenses.

 

I agree that in an environment where there the beam angle is known and will not be required to change, like the house FOH wash then yes buy fixed focus, I certianly wouldn't want to fuss with changing the lenses of the rig.

[Ken Coker]

If I were teaching lighting design, which currently I'm not, I would specify fixed focus ellipsoidals.

If I were the Chief of a very busy receiving house I think I'd want a stock of zooms and fresnels

If I were a lighting designer going to either of the above venues I would want a very well maintained stock of fixed focus ellipsoidals, lots of PARs and some large HMI fresnels.....oh, and the usual barrage of moving lights, but that is by the way.

 

I think the fixed/zoom debate, in a broader context, rather exemplifies the difference in LD practice on either side of the Atlantic - although I think it is less clear cut than it used to be. In the US there is a long tradition of academic teaching of lighting design with the focus on beam angles, focus schedules and the like; in the UK, with a less academic tradition (and with lighting design/designers for a long time being based in "electrics"), the more "adaptable" zoom has evolved. Having said that, it is really only in the last thirty years we have had decent zoom profiles - anyone remember the early Sils with shutters blades only at the top at bottom? I do dimly recall some kind of drive to make us all buy Lekos in the early 80s......possibly the 1880s....mmm, I dribble on.

 

I'm not sure it's the fault of McCandless; I think he probably just used what was there - indeed there is a cut-away drawing of a fresnel on p40 of the fourth edition - and I'm not sure he specifies ellipsoidals; I will check later but I have to rush out to a bat watch. (And I've just realised my copy of Joel Rubin's book has gone missing already....)

 

Have to go, not sure this post has helped

 

KC

[gareth]

We're a mixed-programme theatre (three spaces, a mixture of producing and receiving) and almost all of our profile stock are zoom units - Mainly SLs and Freedoms, but also Cantatas, Shakespeares, Sils and Pacifics. We do have a modest selection of fixed-beam units (Source4 10-degrees, Freedom 40s and a few older Strand patterns), but they're in a minority. Simply, the zooms give us the flexibility we need to cope with using the units in a variety of positions and on a variety of productions.

[Stu]

As many have said, if your a recieving house you really should have a good stock of zoom profiles (say 12-18 each of a 'narrow' and 'wide' in addition to FOH stock), especially if your FOH rig is fixed as in many older theatres (having said that ours is a mix of fixed beam and zooms). However, I personally don't think many of the modern zoom profiles are actually ideal, all have annoying faults which put me off so it would be very easy to get fixed beam S4s, if not very flexible.

[Brent Smith]

I have the luxury of working at a facility that has steadily accumulated hundreds of Source Fours in various fixed degrees from 19 to 50 lamped at 575W. Our FOH positions are hung with 750W 15/30 Zooms. We also have a couple dozen Zooms in the rotation stock.

Barring that luxury, I would agree that with limited resources the zooms offer more value in flexibility. In my situation, probably to little surprise, I prefer the fixed's. Of course in the rotation stock, there's the obvious, they are way too bulky. Ours all have the balancing yolks that make them: 1. impossible to stand the instrument on their barrel. 2. hard to focus straight downward. 3. take up much room on a heavily designed Electric.

My real issue is that in the permanent units in the FOH, the larger 750W filaments sag out of the sweet spot. I wish that I could occasionally flip the lamp over but the third pin precludes that. As a result, I feel that I don't get a bench focus as reliable as in a fixed degree unit. Anybody else notice this?

 

Cheers,

Brent

 

P.s. The reflectors tend to flake in the 750's, but rarely if not never in the 575's.

[Steve B.]

Thanks to all for the responses, and I'm going to ask the question again with a different angle to it.

 

Do you think that zooms are common/typical in many of the larger "main" type halls, Barbican, National, and other similar spaces in other European cities ?. As a side note, I had a visiting Spanish dance company last season as a stop on a short US tour. The LD sent us his European tour plot, in which every profile/ellipsoidal was a S4 25/50 zoom. I never got to ask the question "was this for USA use, or what he encounters in Europe ?". I believe I was the ONLY hall that had ANY S4 zooms (My inventory is soon to contain 64, out of a total of 160 profiles - the entire overhead rig is zooms and Pars).

 

As to the background for fixed lens in the US, it was mostly as there were no good choices in zoom fixtures in the 60's and 70's and it wasn't really until Colortran came out with a 155mm (approx. - in the USA it was called a 6") diameter, 15-35 degree zoom in the mid 80's that I found a US manufactured fixture that served our needs. I could buy a CCT or ADB fixture, but they were horrendously expensive. Even the Colortran was well over 50% more expensive then a fixed lens unit.

 

The for-hire/rental shops all carried Altman model 360Q fixed lens fixtures at the time, which did not have the interchangeble lens tubes available in the Strand-Century, Colortran and some Kliegl profiles. Simply put, the shops didn't want to invest in the more expensive fixtures. It wasn't until the S4 fixed was introduced - 1992, that the for-hire/rental shops would invest in what was obviously a superior profile that every LD was screaming to have. At that time, ETC had not introduced the S4 zoom - Altman had introduced a Shakespeare clone with zoom optics, but the ETC fixture ultimately was/is far superior.

 

FWIW, the current pricing of S4's in the US is that the 25/50 zoom (without lamps)can be purchased for about $420, while an S4 fixed with a standard lens set is $275. Add to that 2 additional lens sets at $90 ea. and the total fixed package with a 26, 36 & 50 lens set runs $455, so it's actually cost effective to purchase the zoom. Note however that you need a color frame extender (in the 25/50 fixture) as this fixture melts blue & green filters, so that's another $25.

 

I do agree with Brents comments about the larger 15/35 degree zoom as it's an unwieldy beast and I'm glad I have no call for the unit, I do have the Shakespeare version and they are massive and difficult to focus. One fixture that's getting a name here in the states is the Selecon Pacific series, as they were offering 70 & 90 degree optics with crisp imaging, something ETC has had to play catch-up with it's new EDLT series. Lot's of good opinions about the Selecons, even though they are pricy.

 

The lively discussion on Controlbooth.com indicated to me a continuing dislike for zooms in the US. I cannot fathom why, as the logic seemingly dictates a zoom is a superior choice, as many of you here have shown a preference. As others have stated, though, in a teaching enviroment, the fixed lens fixtures forces the students to understand beam angles, where a zoom saves the day when they've mucked up the original design. Back and forth we go here, over this argument !.

 

No matter, as my own house, which is a rental/for hire hall, maintains a standard rep. rig that mostly doesn't change and our investment in zooms pays off in flexibility as well as overall cost savings in labor by not having to swap barrels around (and back afterwards). And a good question was asked as to where and how do you store all this stuff and how accessible is it when you need to swap, and do you do from the Genie, or haul in the electrics batten ?.

 

Some US electricians have complained that the optics are inferior to fixed S4's in terms of image crispness as well as complaining that the fixture is not as bright as fixed. I think the 750w fixture is plenty bright and as I don't use fixed on the overhead rig I don't give the visiting LD's anything to compare to when focusing - which effectively answers the "Not crisp enough" questions.

 

I can say in closing, that in my youth I got hold of a whole lot of copies of the UK magazine called Tabs and had my outlook somewhat colored by the opinions of the likes of Fred Bentham, Francis Read, Richard Pilbrow, etc... I have also in my career, spent a lot of time with companies from outside the US, so I suspect my overall outlook on lighting is very UK and European oriented.

 

I ain't buying a Congo though, god-damned RPN !. (grin)

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Steve Bailey

Lighting Director

Brooklyn Center for the Performing Arts

Brooklyn College - City University of NY

Brooklyn, NY, USA