safety curtain

[ktv303]

Hi All

Can anyone tell me how long it should take from the fire alarm activating till the curtain is down?

I know the curtain has 30 seconds once the button has been pressed but I need to know how long the WHOLE process should take.

basically management are saying no crew is needed when no show is on and are letting sales staff take out and put in the curtain....but they are based a bit away from stage so would have to run down the stairs to activate the curtain.

 

so im trying to find out if this is ok or not and where it states this.

 

thanks for your help

[gareth]

Firstly, I don't know of any regs that dictate a maximum time from the alarm sounding to the iron being in - the only one that I know about is the one that says the iron must close the pros opening within 30 seconds.

 

Secondly, if there's no performance taking place, and there are no crew working (implying that there's no rehearsal or technical work taking place), why is there a need for the iron to be taken out?

[ktv303]

the curtain is/was being raised for contractors working on stage and when tours are taking place.

they always had 1 tech on for "safety" reasons but have decided they dont need 1 now

[gareth]

If "they" have decided that they don't need tech cover, then "they" need to take responsibility for raising and lowering the iron in the technicians' absence. You're not there, so it's not your responsibility.

[paulears]

I may be wrong, but it does sound as if you're looking for legislative reasons to continue the overtime?

 

Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but it is the bosses building, not the staff's. So I have a kind of problem with the 'ownership' issue. In my venue, the owner goes into the off-stage store, and takes gel. He also has a compulsive tidy up attitude, and is likely to throw out important things, like lighting plans, pins and other useful stuff, that gets left lying around. The Stage Manager goes mad, and has now put a chubb lock on the store - the owner is demanding access, and having it denied.

 

At the end of the day - my attitide is he is the boss, and I have to put up with it. In the case of the iron - if the theatre is dark, is your iron normally left in? We leave ours out when the building is empty. I walked into the damn thing in the dark one because somebody had dropped it!

[heffie512]

Our fire curtain (safety curtain) was recently replaced in a reno (it was an asbestos curtain)

 

Now when the fire alarm goes off the curtain comes it by itself (it is connected to the alarms)

during the week we have tech staff on to pull it out, however on a weekend the curtain would stay in until the is a fit up for a show or for the week day tech to take out.

 

The curtain take less than 30 sec to come in (42ft (12.8M)prosc arch)

 

hope that helps....

 

Jeff

[paulears]

I'm not sure an auto decending safety curtain would be considered safe here - probably in the same category as auto pyros. I'd have thought that with something as solid as an iron, dropping it when there could be people under it, let alone 'things' could be very nasty indeed. I'm thinking of maybe unconcious people, that kind of thing. The more I think of it, the more it kind of becomes a French Revoloution device!

[Sarah Q]

In my previous theatre we had an iron that took approximately 30 seconds to be brought in or out from a switch in prompt corner. There had to be a key in it as well to prevent accidental activation.

 

There were many theatre tours most days, and the iron would usually be in if there was work going on onstage (with the exception of focussing of course) - this was to prevent anyone on the tour being hurt. They would come up the wings, often behind safety barriers. There were also flashing beacons to warn when there was grid work going on... The tour guides would always ask the Head of Stage, or most senior member of staff where it was safe to be.

 

I suppose the point I am making is, is it essential to raise the iron when the crew aren't there? Can the theatre tours not find another route through that allows for it to be left in, therefore removing the responsibility from anyone?

[ktv303]

thanks for your help all

 

I was asking purely from a H&S point of view

if our fire alarm goes off it would probably take about 3 mins for the button to be pressed for the curtain to come down...thats why I was looking for some reg or something to say it had to be done faster.....but there obviously isnt one..

 

my argument with management is that it is now a "less" safer working practice than it was when someone was on stage.

it also raised some questions...like...what if the fire/hazard is anywhere between sales office and stage?....in the event of an evacuation the sales manager will have to enter an area that everyone else is leaving.

 

ive asked for the risk assesment but im still waiting.

 

thanks all again

[robloxley]

Do you have a secondary iron release outside the stage area e.g. by the stage door?

[djw1981]

My understanding is the the safety curtain was there to prevent an on stage fire spreading to the auditorium. If there is no audience in the auditorium when contractors etc are working on stage, is there an issue if the sales staff cannot get to release the curtain - those on stage evacuate through a backstage route, and those FOH exit that way. if no one is in the auditorium there is no increased risk to life, since there is no 'life' in the empty area. The fire damage may be higher, but that is an issue for the management.

 

The issue with a 'remote' switch for the safety curtain would surely come back to the point made above - it should not be released by anyone who cannot visually confirm that the area under the curtain is clear, lest the curtain jam on scenery etc, or worse, be brought in on top of a casualty.

[gareth]

The issue of the iron being in or out has nothing (in terms of the associated laws and regulations) with the passage of people from one area of the theatre to another - it's purely to do with controlling the spread of fire and smoke. In many theatres, there's an open orchestra pit between the stalls and the stage anyway, making it impossible to use that route from auditorium to stage (or vice versa) regardless of whether the iron's in or out.

[djw1981]

Sorry my point was that if there is no audience, then there is no need for an iron to stop the fire spreading to the auditorium, from the point of view of saving lives. If you presume the iron to try to save the building as well, then it has a role. Hope this is clearer.

[Rowan]

If I can throw in my comments.

 

It sounds like it is normal in your venue to leave the Iron in when there is nobody around. Therefore somebody must be in the vicinity to open it in the situations you suggested. What about training the tour guide to open the iron when they get on to the stage and dropping it as they leave. If I was on the tour, it would be one of the things I would be interested in seeing (probably from both sides, but then I might just be a bit weird!)

 

Likewise, who is taking the Iron out for the contractors?

I've tried to think of situations where you would have contractors on stage and they would NEED the iron out. I can only think of maybe Iron maintenance or replacing the floor. If ever I have contractors on stage, I expect a member of technical staff to be in the building.

 

Failing all of that, stage door keeper?

[NigelFoster]

Hi All

Can anyone tell me how long it should take from the fire alarm activating till the curtain is down?

I know the curtain has 30 seconds once the button has been pressed but I need to know how long the WHOLE process should take.

basically management are saying no crew is needed when no show is on and are letting sales staff take out and put in the curtain....but they are based a bit away from stage so would have to run down the stairs to activate the curtain.

 

so im trying to find out if this is ok or not and where it states this.

 

thanks for your help

Hi I have worked on Irons for a number of years this includes installing new ones and servicing existing ones I have never heard of a safety curtain linked to a fire alarm system as it has to be completley mechanical and not be affected by anything electrical to drop in.As you know there is a release on the stage and you should have a cable operated release by the stage door or other exit so that it can be deployed remotely I hope this helps