FROG 2 - ANY VIEWS???

[tij5987]

Hi all,

 

looking to upgrade a few of my consoles at the moment, and had a look around at ABTT, and was actually very impressed by the demo I recieved on on the Frog 2 by Zero88 - seems to have a huge amount of features for such a price, with a pretty small footprint. My main concern however, is that not many of these consoles seem to be out on the circuit. Is there a reason for this? What are the cons of this desk exactly? I understand it isn't a GrandMA, but it does seem to have alot of features out there that are very desirable - so why is it not more widely used?

Any advice much appreciated as always.

 

Tom.

[afterworks]

My opinion probably isn't to valid as I haven't used it in a working envoirment, but whilst I was down at Zero 88 I had a play with one for a few hours. I was pretty impressed, theres a lot you can do on there. I wouldn't buy one new tho as AC normally have an ex demo one at half the price...

What kind of application are you looking to use it for? Gigs? Theatre?

[grandMA_the_2nd]

I know the Frog is not a grandMA but go and look at the new mini MA - the pico... get all the power of the big desks in a little box without the need for playing with tonka town desks... they are fine for basic educational needs but are laughed at in the pro sector... grandMA always sounds big and scary and over the top but there is a whole range out there, if you can op a little one its not a big leap to the bigger ones and get work as a programmer... there is no work for frog operators there...im not a salesman for MA by the way...before anyone asks...

[mac.calder]

I would guestimate that there are far more frogs in the UK than grandMAs - and whilst the bigger shows do often use grandMA (and 'next Gen' desks in general) they really are a small sector of the events/theatre industry - Strand 5xx/3xx programming skills still kills everything if you want employability.

[tij5987]

Thanks all, I will check with AC bout ex demo prices etc.

 

With reference to the above, my business partner alreadys own a MALight, which I get on very well with (would prefer the full size which I was trained on but beggars can't be choosers!) but most people havn't got a clue when it comes to this desk - so dry hires or leaving the desk for an operator after we have plotted a show is pretty much out of the question - was thinking for most dry hires the Frog may be fairly familiar to plenty of schools, colleges, theatres etc. We already own some Strand 300/500 desks and will keep throwing them out but want to loose some and start updating.

 

Thanks all, any more info or opinions would be great.

 

TJ

[Ben Langfeld]

was thinking for most dry hires the Frog may be fairly familiar to plenty of schools, colleges, theatres etc.

 

Most schools who have frog desks have either the original Frog or the Fat Frog, and as far as I'm aware, the Frog 2 is very different.

[Ben Lawrance]

Working on a dance shows this week on a frog 2. The desk crashed so many times with fatel errors that we put the show on the house 550i.

 

2p in the pot

[grandMA_the_2nd]

I would guestimate that there are far more frogs in the UK than grandMAs - and whilst the bigger shows do often use grandMA (and 'next Gen' desks in general) they really are a small sector of the events/theatre industry - Strand 5xx/3xx programming skills still kills everything if you want employability.

 

I would seriously think about your last statement, the 500 and 300 series are fast being thrown out of west end shows and touring productions for a number of manufacturers as they simply cant cope with the demands of modern shows, they are clunky and slow and the new strand desk is too late to make a dent in the market... I think there are a number of great manufacturers out there ate the mo but for employability by all means laern the 500 series so you can keep ahead with the mid 90's but look ahead to where the makrket is going - and its moving very quickly at the mo..

[paulears]

Quantify "fast being thrown out" - Remember that the West End, and touring have never been totally Strand. Their needs are very, very different from the No. 1 and No.2 venues and the remainder. If you tour, then having a desk tailored to the production needs is (and always has been) the norm. When Disney turned up at the Dominion in TCR for Beauty and the Beast, they brought with them a 'need' for an Obsession, the flavour of the year. So this isn't new.

 

However, there are very large numbers of 500/300 series controls out there that are still giving excellent service, and simply get unplugged from time to time as required. But when the flash show loads out, and the dance show, or comedian, or tribute band, or............ arrive, the desk is perfectly able to do whatever they need, and how many venues have a large stock of their own moving head fixtures, over and above what the 500 desk can control.

 

 

It does strike me that there are decades worth of Strand operating skills still out there, and by the time people learn the next operating system, it has been replaced by the 'new' one, having few links to the 'old'.

 

 

Budgets outside the capital (which for some odd reason is considered the centre of the universe) are very tight. No venue nowadays can consider 'throwing out' a perfectly workable control because it is no longer state of the art. Strand have dropped a huge clanger as many 500s are reaching the end of their life, and when this comes, there is no guarantee they get replaced with the same brand - the qdos factor of the name has sadly gone, and the choice wide. When, and only when the end arrives can non-subsidised regional theatre consider throwing anything out.

 

The West End is not typical British theatre, it is a different beast althogether, and putting on a new production means everything is new. Control is just one small feature on the hire list.

 

Going back to the Beauty and the Beast - even then, with the big Disney budget, they decided that as the original in-house dimmers worked, why not use them?

 

How does a new entrant to our business decide which control to master? There is no guarantee that you'll ever get to work one in anger.

[peter]

If you would like a full demo of the Frog 2 please contact me off forum - pkirkup@zero88.com or 07770742053.

[dave singleton]

Working on a dance shows this week on a frog 2. The desk crashed so many times with fatel errors that we put the show on the house 550i.

 

Im not entirely sure of the cause of this. The desk seemed to work fine after we had finished re-patching to the 550i. Its been used many many times before on bigger and smaller shows and never had a gitch.

[Matt Riley]

but it does seem to have alot of features out there that are very desirable - so why is it not more widely used?

I know that I'm a rock and roll boy (and a self confessed soundie!) but when I think about the options available for 7K, then I could easily buy a pearl 08 (possibly an expert), and have a desk which will do similar stuff, do it easier, spend lots of time out on hire, and most importantly, make visiting lampies happy, not sad. This coming from a guy who has to occasionally gingerly put a chamsys in front of touring lampies with the well rehearsed line "it's just like a hog 2...honest"

 

Matt