using lighting to create scenery effects

[ahou1]

We have a small stage about 9m wide 3m high and 4.5m deep

 

We have always used flats, and rolled canvases for scenery and intermediate curtains. but would like to consider using a cyclorama (or at least a plain lighted/projected backdrop)for a production next year.

 

can you advise on:-

1) whether this is feasible on such a small area

 

2) what lighting would be best - I think two/three cyclorama lights with 3/4 cells ? probably from the front so we don't loose any space

 

3) whether front projection or gobos would be successful on top - probably again from the front ?

 

4) what material would be best material / plastic ????

Many thanks

Alison

[woody74]

With cycs, everything depends on the separation between the cyc and the actors. You will lose space regardless of back or front lighting, because if you front light it, the actors can't get too close to it without getting washed with light and casting a shadow on the cyc; backlighting will allow the actors closer to it, but as you said, you'll lose space upstage of the cyc. Bottom line, you have to know what effect you are trying to achieve; that will dictate where the cyc is lit from.

 

And as to projections and gobos, you should consider what angle they will be hitting the cyc; a steep angle will create odd shaped patterns (keystoning) and more flat shots (like from a balcony position) might present a problem if the actors are able to walk in front them.

 

With out actors, all of this would be much easier... :** laughs out loud **:

 

HTH,

-w

 

edit: as to material, cycs are generally fabric; one reason is that they have a matte surface, so the actual lighting instrument isn't reflected in it. Anything shiny has the potential of acting like a mirror and looking uneven and spotty.

[ahou1]

Thanks for that - really helpful - if we were going to backlight - what would the minimum distance we could get away with for this relatively small area?

 

We could light from above and/or below.

 

can we get a material we can use for front and back lighting - so we can change it around ?

 

What material are these usually ? - could they be rolled up and down ?

 

Thanks Again

Alison

[jacet]

Sounds like a show I did at the start of the year. We had a sparse set and used the cyc just to add more depth to it. Our stage is roughly the same size as yours and getting the right coverage was quite a worry for us. In the end we put the cyc right at the back of the stage as there was quite a large cast and we simply couldn't afford to loose the space! To light it I used some LED fixtures, Chroma-Q colour blocks. The colour mixing made them really versatile and they turned out to be far brighter than I expected. We were able to get good coverage of the cyc (which was aprx 10m x 6m in the end) by flying the fixtures on two bars, one at grid height about 1m downstage of the cyc one just above sightlines about 1.5m away. After some careful focussing it looked pretty good and despite the extreme angles that they were focussed at, the coverage wasn't patchy at all, In fact, the angles meant that it was possible for the cast to get almost right onto the cyc before there were any shadows! I guess what I’m trying to say is, it is possible to get it looking good despite being really restricted with regards to where you can place your fixtures and cyc.

 

 

Hope that helps!

[woody74]

Thanks for that - really helpful - if we were going to backlight - what would the minimum distance we could get away with for this relatively small area?

 

I can't speak to distance because it depends on the photometrics of the instrument, but for short throw distances, I would recommend a cyc-fixture; the reflectors are designed to cast an even field of light from short distances.

 

If you have the means, lighting from above and below is best: more even coverage and you can do split color washes. And are you buying or looking to hire?

 

I know there are others on these boards that can point you in the direction of a cyc-fabric supplier (after, of course, you have exhausted the web and your local phonebook).

 

I'm glad you are doing this "next year", because it sounds like you have a bit of a research project on your hands.

[Johnno]

Our school stage is of similar size and we project scenery using a computer projector and PowerPoint. Shadowing caused by the actors doesn't seem to matter. I'd suggest trying it yourself. Our projector is an ordinary 2000 lumen model and we project it to about 25ft wide onto the rear wall which is painted with ordinary paint.

[Ella]

Just an idea - you could try experimenting with different materials of different transparencies in layers (one in front of the other) to create a more 3D effect. I've never tried this, but I bet you could produce some interesting effects, maybe by cutting the layers into shapes - whatever you decided would be based on the feel of the show, what play is it? Not sure how you'd light it, I think it might take footlights, especially if one of the front layers overhung from the top. Backlighting might be nice too.

 

In reply to Johnno, how do you manage to project such a wide beam? Where do you have the projector? I tried this in at school too and there were awful problems with projection light on the actors bodies etc.

[Johnno]

In reply to Johnno, how do you manage to project such a wide beam? Where do you have the projector? I tried this in at school too and there were awful problems with projection light on the actors bodies etc.

 

First time I did it (Lion + Witch + Wardrobe) the proj was tied to an FOH lighting bar 15ft up (12ft above stage), 10ft in front of the apron (26ft from cyc). The bottom of the image was just above the stage. The beam wasn't visible on the actors due to the overall lighting level. I just made sure that no spots hit the cyc (except the follow spot). Some night/forest scenes were done with no lighting except the projection. Any spill onto the actors just made the scene look weirder as it was no different to using a break-up gobo in a profile with a blue filter. I may still have some photos somewhere, I'll have a look.

 

You say "awful" problems with spill. How powerful is your projector??? How fussy is your director? Ours prefers projection because she doesn't like the disruption to the play's flow caused by changing real scenery. Our drama group and myself are very inexperienced so perhaps our technical standards are not as exacting as yours?

 

My mistake! The image would not have been as wide as I stated: this year I've had a bar installed 30ft from the apron (46ft from cyc) which does give full width projection onto the cyc wall though it was put up too late for the last show (Forbidden Planet). That show used a 1500 lumen projector 20ft from the apron (36ft from cyc) and projected animations made by me to show the rocket taking off etc. The cast turned round to watch it as though it was their tv screen. The image was probably 15ft or so wide on an unlit cyc. Some simple projections were done with the cyc lights on: RED ALERT was made to flash on a red washed cyc for example, along with KLYSTRON MALFUNCTION, OVERLOAD, and REVERSE POLARITY. An animated gif of a tentacled monster was projected successfully onto a green washed cyc. The monster itself was green but showed up fine. Perhaps I should say here that our cyc battens use 150W lamps, so are not overly powerful.

[ahou1]

Sounds like a show I did at the start of the year. We had a sparse set and used the cyc just to add more depth...

That's really helpful, thanks- sounds like its achievable - how many Chroma- q blocks did you use - one on each bar ? - sorry what do you mean by grid height -(not a technician here - but I'm guessing this was also pointing down ) We can definately rig the ones just out of sight lines - no problem and being able to get the cast right to the back is a real bonus !!! Looking at the cost - this looks like a hire for us

 

So off to hunt for a cyclorama itself now......

 

First time I did it (Lion + Witch + Wardrobe) the proj was tied to an FOH lighting bar 15ft up (12ft above stage), 10ft in front of the apron (26ft from cyc)...

Thanks again - think we'll need to have a play about with this - gobos from the front will be fine and we have access to a projector this size we used before on a small screen rather than the full width which worked brilliantly, and this sort of combining with the cyc lights was exactly waht I had in mind - blizzard on blue, gunfire on red - that sort of thing

 

lots to try out I think......

[jacet]

err, no I used about 14 in the end, and they cost a fair bit (assuming your on a tight budget) but they did look good, and it was well worth all of the sucking up that I had to do to get every spare penny that was left in the budget to pay for it :unsure:

sorry what do you mean by grid height -(not a technician here - but I'm guessing this was also pointing down )

yeah, I just got them as high as I could over the stage, pretty much hanging off the roof / whatever you have over your stage.

To be fair though, if you're on a tight budget and don't have the luxury of space, it may be worthwhile sticking with more standard cyc fixtures or projector, just becuase they're easier to use and probably a lot cheaper (and will be far less hastle).