teachur Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Hi All!! I have just joined the Blue Room on a friend's advice! Cool place, I do like! Anhyoo, my question! I am currently working on a show where my set is goign to be in black and white. I am using no lantern stronger than 500w (small studio space) and these include Patt23, but I cannittee remember the name of the Fresnel's I have. Anyhoo, I really want to avoid the browned/sepia type effect when an O/W lantern fades and want to try and hold durign the show as "greyscale" as I can, bearking in mind that I won't want to run all lamps at 100% all the way through the show. I have been told to look into Neutral Density filters...what do you think? Thanks in advance for any ideas or tips! Teachur (guess what I do!!! Oh, but I do have tech experience!!! hehe) p.s. I am a loyal Lee Filters user! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 At a wild guess you're not an English teacher but your idea about n.d. is precisely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachur Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 At a wild guess you're not an English teacher but your idea about n.d. is precisely right. Hehe No no, I am a Drama teacher, through and through, with expereince in the technician world. I am an LX designer at heart, and did some BIG shows when at uni (in Warwick Arts Centre). :D Sorry, how rude of me! Thanks for speedy reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Or you could play with some blue colour-correction filters for a 'whiter' light, if the colour temperature bugs you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 You mention you don't want to run all lamps at 100% all the way through? just checking that the ones with ND in will just be the ones you want dimmer, when set to 100% - obviously, even with ND they'll warm up when you dim. Even with 500W lanterns, they will also get very hot, and probably melt/lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'd say the idea of ND filters is precisely wrong. ND only reduces the light output which, with 500W only, you don't have a lot to spare.I second robloxley in the suggestion that you should be looking at some colour correction filters if you just want to take the warmth out. Have a play with Lee 201 or 202. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maeterlinck Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Surely both ideas are right. What ever you do the colour temperature of the lamp will change as it dims. Using some CT blues will give a much cold feel to the light (as suggested above). It will probably make the whites appear starker and the blacks blacker. For darker scenes I'd suggest that ND filters are a good choice for a 'grey' feel. Same colour temp as you can have the lamp at full but less light output. You might want to consider some heat sheild with the higher ND values.If you can have a play with an 8x4 sheet painted white one half and white the other.Also depending on the show you may want to conside using some colour to make the actors appear more alive infront your black and white set. Plenty of frost and careful placement and you should avoid hitting the set too much.HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachur Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'd say the idea of ND filters is precisely wrong. ND only reduces the light output which, with 500W only, you don't have a lot to spare.I second robloxley in the suggestion that you should be looking at some colour correction filters if you just want to take the warmth out. Have a play with Lee 201 or 202. Ahhh, 201, that sounds good. The show is mainly in the round/promenade, and switches from two main states - 1) the Hotel in Black/White: for this I am trying, although not sure it can be done, to get a "grey" light and as far as possible avoid colour. The costume, set and all other articles will be balck and white except for a single red rose in each table (liek the Red coat the girl wears in Schindler's list). The audience sit amongst this, at the table, so obviously the complete wash of "black and white" will be affected by that fact that I can't costume the audience (although I have been tempted to request it like fancy-dress!). So the lighitng for these sections is the bit that is being tricky. But the "cool" light idea, 201, might work, as long it doesn't interefere with: 2) The Scenes in Germany/Elsewhere: The story crosscuts between the hotel and the story of "Jacob", a little German Jewish boy who is sent away from home on the Kindertransport (play based on a play by that name). These scenes are going to be lit with a mixture of blue (132 or 075, haven't decided yet, probably 132) for the deeper feeling, and lifted with 117 - a fave filter of mine that has the sharpness and coolness needed for the scenes. In these scenes only the Stage Centre area, in the middle of the Studio, will be lit, creating an "other" space to the adience. So, the contrast between the rwo has to be quite clear. 2) needs to be cold, and I have already played with the 117 to check that is waht I want. 1) is the tricky one....in cannot be cold as in Blue-cold, but I don't really want the whiteness on the stage to be lit like it has a great big nicotine stain! I'm an awkward bugger! But thanks for your help guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonino Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 If you can have a play with an 8x4 sheet painted white one half and white the other. so a white 8x4? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachur Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'm now sitting here playing with colours now that I have found my LEE Swatch book again!!! As for the suggestions, they are great, keep them coming! Just to make it more clear...the actors standing out want be a problem, the furthest audience member will be only 10ft from the centre of the stage, and really 20ft from any actor at any time. The promixity will be lessened to as little as 1-2ft! So the actors really are in the thick of it, literally sitting next to/with the audience at times! I see the point oabout 201 and ND, but I think that 201 will be problematic if I want to avoid the cool colour in the "Hotel" ( see the "1)" above). One other question: on the swatch details under the ND filters it says things like: 298 , .15ND, "Reduces light 1/2 Stop" What does that last bit mean exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 One other question: on the swatch details under the ND filters it says things like: 298 , .15ND, "Reduces light 1/2 Stop" What does that last bit mean exactly?It's to do with photography - a "stop" is a standard measure of camera iris aperture.So if you put that filter in, you'll have to open your camera iris by 1/2 a stop to get the same exposure. (All other things being equal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 The real value of n.d. is when you want a cold (117) look at a very low level.You cannot dim the lamp because as soon as you dim it the blue end of the spectrum disappears from the lamp.So you have to run the lamp at full then add n.d. until you have reduced the lamp to the level you need and slow fade out won't work either for the same reason.Many years ago this was a hard learnt lesson as a director wanted a frosty night look at a very low level which caused me a great deal of strife.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Coker Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Not wishing to disagree with anyone - hmm, now there's a first - you might find the full correction blues a little too much; in my view they can "drain" colour from objects/faces. 218 might be worth a look at. KC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 No book to hand, but I used a quarter CT recently to give some differentiation, the "opposite" look was mostly straw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 "Reduces light 1/2 Stop" What does that last bit mean exactly? Traditional cameras had shutters and apertures that were adjusted in discrete intervals. The shutter speed sequence changed by doubling/halving the time it was open, thus 1/30 1/60sec etc. The aperture changed by doubling/halving the area. Changing either control by one notch would double or halve the amount of light reaching the film: one stop. So ND1 cuts 50% of the light (one stop), ND2 75% (two stops), ND3 87.5% (three stops) and so on. Mathematically the aperture number marked on the lens is calculated by dividing the focal length of the lens by the diameter of the aperture.So a standard 50mm f/1.4 - f/22 lens had a maximum aperture of 50/1.4=35mm and a minimum of 50/22=2.2mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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