Dayve Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Hey, I am contemplating renting out some of my equipment and myself (putting it up, operating it, taking it back down etc) to local events etc. I am only 15 (well, will be by the time I start doing it) and I wondered if there are a lot of legal, insurance stuff I would have to take into mind. Most of the things I would be doing would be just local things like lighting and sound for small bands, kids discos, lighting and sound for other small events. Spoke to a few people and PAT testing came up with I would do, but anything else I would have to consider etc? Thanks for your help, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPlater1 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 If you want to be doing it within the law and be paid for it, you will need Public Liability insurance, which I don't think is available to under 18s. If you did find the public liability insurance from somewhere, it would be expensive. You would need to consider all the health and safety aspects, and, sorry to say this, you will probably need someone a lot more competent to do your PAT testing. You need to take into account how much the equipment will be used/abused, and all equipment should be pat tested after every hire. This is for everyone's safety. It is great that you are enthusiastic, but be careful. Some other people on here will be along in a minute and they can tell you better than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayve Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Yeah, I thought there would be stuff like public liability, maybe ill have to hold of for a couple of years. Will doing small stuff like lighting a mates band and stuff along those lines need the same kind of stuff or can you get away with that a lot easier. Ty, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Console Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I will start by saying go for it, it is good fun, I did! However...1. PAT testing is a PITA, takes me a day to do if it is the lighting kit going out, so bear that in mind. (It is also expensive to set up, but I do PAT testing as a day job if required - course cost £150, tester £900, software £450)2. My Public Liability costs £1 a day, every day.3. I am registered as self employed, and have to keep my books4. Good kit costs a bomb, I was lucky, I managed to buy lots of kit when a theatre closed down, at stupid prices (EV SX-200 @ £50, Prelude 16-30 @ £25 for example)5. Cheap kit is fine to start you off, just don't expect it to last.6. This year, kit hire with me there (this is called Wet Hire) made me £300. Not a lot.7. If you are not there on the hire (this is called Dry Hire), expect your kit to get trashed, it has happened to me. When I was your age (10 years ago) I started to help at a local Theatre group, then moved on to work in the Theatre itself, went to Uni, went to Thomson holidays, and only now am I able to go it alone. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayve Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Ouch, PAT testing doesn't sound cheap. For now, I will probably just do small stuff, helping with small bands and all the odd jobs I do but when I do get to the age where its legal to do it I may consider it a bit more. Is it ok to do things like doing sound and lighting for my mates band and stuff like that for friends without all the offical testing etc - obviously I would check it was all and safe (obvious stuff) and when its all rigged up it safe. Thanks, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 You'll be taking your equipment into a public entertainment venue, so you have a responsibility to ensure that your equipment is safe. How you choose to do this is up to you, but a regular program of PAT testing is one way. There's plenty of stuff on the BR on the subject of PAT testing - search, read and digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete LD Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 what sort of kit have you got? its best to start doing things for friends for free or a few quid cash as a thank you to start off with. if you start advertising you could end up in a mess as I'm sure you haven't got the kit or the experience that a hirer would except! that said its as good age to start with an interest of lighting and sound, thats where I started and I worked at a amateur theatre and got experience that way. now I own a lot of kit, have worked at various large theatres and toured with shows and I'm only 22.good luck and listen to what people have to say on here, they want to help. to many 15 yearolds think they no best and ignore advice!Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Good comment so far. Doing this kind of thing does give you valuable knowledge and experience, but there a re a few legal issues. The public liability insurance comment is spot on - while you don't actually HAVE to have it, in today's world it's very dangerous. You can't actually get it yourself - so you will need somebody over 18 to do this, but the problem is that if you do any damage, the insurance company may have grounds to 'duck out'. The best thing would be a decent insurance broker who can possible arrange something - there are policies for yout groups that might work - you just need to ask the over 18 person to do it for you - you can't legally sign anything or be responsible for anything - good, eh? The only other thing is to watch the money side - as somebody still in education, you are allowed to earn up to a certain limit without paying tax, and that usually means you get to keep all the money. Just keep good records, just in case. PAT testing isn't a real issue unless you have bucket loads of kit - find somebody who does this kind of thing and ask them to do yours - if it's only a few items it shouldn't be a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayve Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Thanks for all the advice so far, ill stick with doing small jobs for friends etc for npw and when my Dad gets home I might ask if he knows anyone who does PAT testing (he seems to know everyone...) As many people have said, they started off working in small theatures, ive been looking around my local area for some stuff and emailing a few people but many people are reluctant these days. Ty, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Contrary to other opinion, don't work for free. If this is something that you intend to develop into a financially-rewarding venture at a later date, start as you mean to go on. If you work for free now, the people that you do it for will expect it to continue. You'll have trouble convincing people to pay you for the evening in a couple of years' time when you've spent so long doing their gigs for nothing. Even if it's only a token amount to cover your expenses (petrol, food, wear & tear on kit, replacement lamps, etc.), if someone's not willing to stump up a few quid in order to have some lighting for their gig why should you bust a gut to give it to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayve Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Contrary to other opinion, don't work for free. If this is something that you intend to develop into a financially-rewarding venture at a later date, start as you mean to go on. If you work for free now, the people that you do it for will expect it to continue. You'll have trouble convincing people to pay you for the evening in a couple of years' time when you've spent so long doing their gigs for nothing. Even if it's only a token amount to cover your expenses (petrol, food, wear & tear on kit, replacement lamps, etc.), if someone's not willing to stump up a few quid in order to have some lighting for their gig why should you bust a gut to give it to them? Don't worry, I wouldn't work for free, its not worth me doing for free, although I get the enjoyment out of doing I would loose money (which I don't like the sound of :)) Ta, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Console Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Listen well to Gareth, what he says in his last post is exactly what happened to me! I now only offer the Scouts the free event of the year, because it is good fun to do, and is within the village where I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 100% agree too - One favour 11 years ago means a free outing to radio kit twice each year, good cause, lovely people, such nice thank you letters, yet they send me a cheque grudgingly when I invoice them for broken mics, lost clips, the occasional down the toilet pack etc. This year they forgot to screw in the aerials and complained to me that they had to hire some from another company at a huge price (but a fair one, in my book). Doing things at cost is ok in my opinion if you actually want to do the gig, but if you don't it becomes a real chore and you start to turn into a curmudgeonly old git - ideal for a BR mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody74 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Dayve, There is a discussion in Lighting that might be of interest to you. -w edit: corrected my stupidity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayve Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Dayve, There is a discussion in Lighting that might be of interest to you. -w edit: corrected my stupidity... Been following that thread aswell, for now im going to do small stuff for my band and friends bands and keep it simple and build up a bit of a collection of equipment so when I decide to go for it I will be all ready. Thanks, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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