fredfish Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ok. at the moment, my video kit extends as far as one cheap cctv type camera and a tripod, which have been used plugged directly into a projector, to allow audiences to see the performer during organ recitals. as cheap as the camera is, it doesn't actually look half bad, but anyway, I am looking to expand my kit to include perhaps a proper camera and a basic video mixer for use at conferences etc to allow the audience to see the speaker over projectors. basically my problem is that I can't find a camera of decent quality, which has a direct video out, and no inbuilt way of recording, as I don't need this. My other problem is that I obviously can't afford anything like a professional broadcast camera, but am looking for something more in the price range of a good camcorder. I have searched ebay, and the blue room but to no avail, and as I am very new to this field, I don't actually know what to look for. please help!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayselway Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Apart from the time-out when not recording, is there any reason why you couldn't use a camera with built in recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick S Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Yeah, I'm not sure why you couldn't use a 'prosumer' camera with built in recording. What's your budget? A second hand Sony VX1000 is a very capable 3-CCD very nearly broadcast quality camera for not a lot of money (£500, 600 odd?) - I've just been shooting with one that's about 8 years old and this was one loaned out to students, so it had seen a fair bit of damage and yet still seemed in good nick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I'm surprised you couldn't find things on ebay - there are usually loads of them - typically a search for DXC will bring up some sonys, and BVW may too - although you won't want the recorder sections. The other thing if you are really trying to do it cheaply and with decent quality is look for a consumer mini-dv camcorder, that has worn out or broken tape mechnanisms - these often go for peanuts - one I saw last week went for 9.99 +£5 postage. Without a tape inside they are excellent for producing nice bright, colourful images with composite output - they are also quite small and easy to position. The difference in picture quality is not as straightforward as it appears to be. 3 chip cameras are better than 1 - but a 1/3" single CCD is pretty good - you can see a difference - if you know what to look for - many people can't. a small camera wil also be easier to mount. big ones require big tripods and quality heads, just to support the weight - and these can be VERY expensive - far more than the camera you put on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Most AV companies have something along the lines of the Sony VX2000/PD150 VX2100/PD170. These do record, but also without a tape in them will run as a camera for as long as needed. They offer good pictures for most circumstances. If you're looking to future proof the work you do, then seriously consider a HD capable machine such as the Sony HVR-Z1E or the JVC equivalent. More and more companies are expecting HD capability, plus it safe guards your investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredfish Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 A "prosumer" camcorder would certainly do, as long as it will function with no time out without recording media in, and no annoying little messages on the output. its just that camcorders often have a lot of stuff I don't need and will never use, like built in sound, and the whole record/replay/edit system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick S Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Borderline 'professional' cameras have built in sound and editing systems, but nobody in their right mind would use them in the professional world...it's all XLRs and DV decks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 A word of warning. Buying HD kit is really risky at the moment. Too many different formats and some broadcasters being very picky about which they will accept. Although I'm into video in a fairly big way, I've just bought another SD camera. I hire whatever format HD clients want. Digibeta for some, pro-sumer HD for others if they have little budget. A friend of mine who I respect for his knowledge has changed 3 times in just over a year. Each HD camera purhcase was made on pretty solid ground - he has gone through two different types of JVC, and now has Sony XD-Cam HD - he's told everyone each time that his latest aquisition is the dogs Bo**ocks - and then changed again. Very scary. So the idea of shooting in HD, just in case, does rather assume that your HD format is still playable in 2 or 3 years. Anybody got betamax tapes in the loft? Quality isn't really the issue - it's feature set. Does the thing do what you need? If so, use it. I use the cheap consumer DV camcorders from Currys as disposable. When you drop them (not if), you don't lose that much sleep - dropping the camera you paid £10 grand for is more of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 When I was suggesting HD, it was more for the Live video output that the OP is after. If you're primarilly going to use it for that, then to some extend the recording format is not key. However it depends on whether your planning to go the HD projection route at any point in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadcast_techie Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 If you don't have much money to spend then ebay can always be your friend... vision mixer:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-WJ-AVE55-D...1QQcmdZViewItemorhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SONY-FXE-120-EDI...1QQcmdZViewItem for a typical conference you got dvd, pc, and 2 cams, so a 4 input should surfice. or for the same price as the sony: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Grass-Valley-100-8-C...1QQcmdZViewItemwith 8 inputs. word of warning: a Panasonic MX50 seems to 'freeze frame' when hot cutting between sources... The more money you spend the better it will be... Cameras: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-DXC-3000AP-PROF...1QQcmdZViewItemneeds a psu and may not be working, but at £30... (psu is generally a 12v 4pin XLR) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-NV-M3500-P...1QQcmdZViewItemmay need lense:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hitachi-DSP-AF24x-Ca...E46222422.y=103 Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim_mcslim Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 If you have a CCTV camera that you use currently, providing that it is of a decent quality (approx £50 ish) and has a propper lens and auto iris control on it, then you are very unlikely to see much of an improvement on moving onto a standard camcorder. At least the CCTV camera works as a camera, with some camcorders you can get a clean composite picture out of them, but a temporary innteruption in power can cause the camera to restart and put the menu display back onto the screen, which can catch you out. To achieve an improvement in quality you need to move upto a 3ccd camera. PD150/PD150/XL1 etc which will cost, or get yourself an old broadcast camera, such as a BetaCam unit which you can pickup for around £400 on ebay, however with the latter you will require a large sturdy tripod. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 An HD camera connected via comp or y/c is unlikely to show you much more detail than a cheepie, I'm afraid - and - many of the new great quality HD units are pretty poor in low light, requiring bags of gain, and this rather spoiling the intent of HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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