Alternative to DDX3216?

[alangeering]

Usage:

Many gig locations & small car = need smallish mixer & rack

Gig requirement (input channels): keys (2), vox (4), bass (1), guitar (3), woodwind (1), drums (5), radio mic (4), DVD/PC/MD/CD (4-8)

Gig requirement (output channels): monitor mixes (4), main mix (2), Record (2-16)

Simplicity of show operation - I'm often running sound, AV and LX

Simplicity of show operation - Some events have 9 bands and require quick change over (automation nice)

Recording features: a good separate mix for recording / or outputs for multi track recording would be useful

There is plenty of set-up time

Budget: as little as possible.

 

Initial conclusion:

Behringer DDX3216 + ADAT1616 card + ADA8000 (2 of)

For recording:

Either 2 Alesis ADAT machines or ADAT card for the PC - eventually a better (newer recorder)

 

Now, currently I'm seing the DDX3216 + ADAT1616 for under £600 with ADA8000 for £150 to £200 each.

Optimistically 32 channels with effects and automation would cost under £1000 (new)

 

Another £200 could pick me up a pair of 2nd hand ADAT recorders or a PCI card

 

BUT!

 

Problem:

DDX3216 is "out of production" everywhere. The cheapest sites have run out and the price seems to be rising...

I'm not sure I want to buy a product that's out of production to be my main mixer (esp since Behringer policy seems to be replace rather than repair)

 

So...

 

Questions:

What do I do?

Is Behringer producing a new version at a similar price point?

Is there anything as flexible small and capable for the same price?

What do people suggest?

 

Please limit answers to digital desks as I really don't have space for lots of outboard compressors etc.

[James]

Alan,

 

When the DDX3216 came out it was priced much higher than £600, particularly with the ADAT 1616 card.

 

My suspicion is that the recent price drops were "priced to clear" and are not representative of it's worth.

 

If you can still find one for £600 then buy it - You might be paying half what it's worth and consider this worth it for a product that is out of production.

 

You might find a used one - however people selling them might be like me and bought the desk when it was at a higher price so you might not see much difference between new and second hand prices.

 

Or you could hire one,

 

Or buy an alternative.

 

The only realy credible alternative is a yamaha 01v96 with a MY16AT card.

 

Yes this combination might cost you twice what you were looking at but it's a product still in production and is made by Yamaha - I know for a fact I haven't had any problems with obtaining spares from Yamaha for obsolite yamaha digital desks so I would be fairly confident that it will be supported in the future.

 

Of course the ability to plug in a wireless USB hub to the desk, get out your tablet PC and wander about the venue tweaking the mix via studio manager might be enough of a benifit to convince you to go for it anyway.

 

James

[Bobbsy]

James sums up the situation very accurately.

 

The only thing I can add is that, about a month ago, Jim Savery (Global Customer Service Manager for Behringer) dropped a heavy hint in a different forum that a DDX3216 successor is in the pipeline. However, he would not be drawn on dates, features or price. I think it's safe to assume that, if/when a new one is released, the price point will be back up where the DDX was originally.

 

...which leaves your only real choice in your price range an older, used Yamaha I fear.

 

Bob

[jamesperrett]

Another £200 could pick me up a pair of 2nd hand ADAT recorders or a PCI card

I would just add that I'm not sure that buying a couple of old ADAT machines would be a wise move. While I've used mine for location recording in the past, they're slow to lock up and can chew tapes if you get impatient with them. I would either go for a computer based solution or a stand-alone hard disc recorder. The Alesis HD24 looks good and isn't too expensive (although more than 200 pounds).

 

Cheers

 

James.

[Bobbsy]

And, from what I understand, support for ADAT products is going to rapidly diminish as fewer manufacturers continue to make them.

 

Bob

[Rob_Beech]

One went on ebay with adat card and flight case for about £420 last weke. I spotted it with 1 minute to go and it was at £266 then and shot up a the last second.

I was tempted by it as I could use something like that for smaller shows and it was literally 5 minutes down the road from me. but the price went up a fair bit.

 

Still a good deal mind you.

 

They do crop up from time to time.

[paulears]

people with adat systems are snapping up the ebay stuff to use as spares - nobody in their right mind would buy one to use - that's why the demand for second hand ones is so high. I have a pile of adat material that I can't play, the three recorders having died a long time ago. Routine service and alignment at £250 a pop now far too expensive, so buying a working machine for backup is really sensible.

 

HD24's are nice bits of kit, I use one for mobile recording, but now it is more convenient to use a pc based recording system. The pain of transfer for editing being the main pita.

[alangeering]

Thank you for your helpful responses.

 

I'm looking now at the Yamahas. Even 2nd Hand Yamahas seem quite expensive... (probably a good sign of quality if they hold value that well)

 

I think it's time for a consultation with the bank book to see what indeed I can afford. Purchases my have to be delayed, I may have to loose some weight & save some more cash.

 

Thanks again,

Alan

[alangeering]

It came down to how much money a poor charity worker can afford - so I bought a 2nd hand Behringer DDX3216

Now I'm looking for an ADAT1616 and an ADA8000 to finish off the setup.

The item I'm having most trouble locating is a computer interface (PCI or external) that will take 2x ADAT inputs (16 channels) for under £200

 

 

 

OK, hope someone reads this...

 

In the DDX3216 manual it says:

"What is mroe, we will establish a forum on our web site www.behringer.com, from where you can download a wealth of aditional information on your DDX3216 . Also, you can share your experiences with other users and keep yourself informed about latest modifications and upgrades for your DDX3216"

 

Anyone know where this forum is?

I remember a website all about the DDX3216 (hosted by behringer) but it seems to have disapeared in the last 2 weeks.

Am I being stupid or is Behringer slowly removing any trace of it's existence?

[Bobbsy]

I don't personally recall a DDX forum but then I've only used one a couple of time, never actually owned a unit. I had a quick look on the Behringer site and the DDX3216 pages are still there, complete with the downloads area. If you're concerned about info disappearing, it might be worth paying a visit and grabbing any downloads/manual updates you need.

 

As for an ADAT interface for your computer, I did a similar look around about 2 years back but I'm afraid I never came near the price you want. I ended up with the Frontier Designs "Dakota" which I'm more than happy with...but it's around double your budget. Hopefully there will be new options since I was shopping...but afraid I personally haven't heard of any.

 

Bob

[jamesperrett]

The item I'm having most trouble locating is a computer interface (PCI or external) that will take 2x ADAT inputs (16 channels) for under £200

 

Your best bet is probably a used RME Hammerfall 9636 card. These have 2 ADAT inputs and 2 ADAT outputs together with SPDIF ins and outs. Mine was £299 new so you ought to be able to find a used one within your budget. The RME cards are very reliable and trouble free in my experience.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[BlueShift]

A Marian Marc A takes 1 lightpipe in and 1 lightpipe out for around £90 - multiple cards can be combined to offer more channels.

[alangeering]

Thanks again guys.

 

(I don't think Behringer ever created the forum they promised... and as for the web site... there was a DDX3216 specific webSITE a few weeks ago - not just the product page)

[Rob_Beech]

I can confirm the Marc A is a great card.

 

I have 3 of them in this machine which I use to connect my HD24XR.

 

 

Obviously this setup makes it a bit slot heavy. often you dont have 3 pci slots free.

 

 

Rob

[alangeering]

"often you don't have 3 pci slots free"

 

... I currently have 19 slots free... but then I am using an industrial backplane

 

Question: Is recording 16 to 24 channels generally reliable? Is there the bandwidth required over the PCI bus?

 

I only ask these things becasue I used to do work with high res VGA capture cards and remember not being able to run more than one at any sort of useful speed. I guess with audio there's less data to shift?