TT24

[cknapper]

Hi all just got a Mackie TT24, heard you can run the desk of your laptop from a wireless USB link. Does this mean I can control the desk from all levels with my laptop. Does anyone know how to do this and what products work with the desk before I go spending money on stuff which doesnt ????

 

Thanking you in advance

Carl

[Matt Riley]

Basically, its like most other digital desks in its price bracket. It can control all levels APART from the input gain, which has to be set manually. To control it over the usb connection via wireless, you have to connect it via usb to a 'base station' pc with XP and a wireless connection - eg 802.11b, which could be a laptop or desktop, and run the mackie remote control software on this pc. You then use microsoft remote desktop to control the functions of the 'base station' pc through a wireless network link on your mobile wireless equipped laptop. If you want you can use a PDA instead of the laptop!

 

An alternative which cuts out the 'base station' pc is using a ubox or silex usb server to act as a really long virtual usb cable to your laptop, which is running the mackie remote control software. These options, however use wireless to substitute a usb link and are less reliable than the other method, having only been tested on yammie digital desks at the moment (I think)

 

You really don't need anything fancy in terms of hardware for either of the pcs. If you use a desktop for the base station, you barely even need a monitor/keyboard once you're set up - in theory you could nick the monitor and keyboard off the lighting console just to set up the link, and cut costs even further. Make sure you're got some tame lampies though!

 

Hope this helps,

 

Matt

 

edit: to make a little more sense

[cknapper]

so if I get a usb Dongle and stick this into the MAckie USB connection, I can run this as my laptop has wireless on it or do I need a USB base station to be connected to the Mackie desk !!!!!

 

Sorry if im really thick.

 

Carl

[Bobbsy]

Caveat: I've never touched a TT24 (and with my opinion of Mackie hope not too), however...

 

I don't think a simple dongle will do it since they're designed to plug into a PC which can handle the software side of things.

 

Instead, I think you need something like THIS which is what I'd have to use to do the same trick with my Yamahas.

 

Bob

[MarkPAman]

What Matt said. :(

 

I find running the desk from a laptop only is not that good. I have done it, but will avoid doing it again for any event using more than about 4 inputs. The main reasons for this are that navigating from one channel to another is menu driven on the laptop, so takes much longer than the one or two button presses it takes on the desk. And that without the desk I am limited in my metering to the channel I am working on (or a lot of meters - but then I can not adjust anything). It is possible that multiple windows will be possible in future firmware versions, that should help.

 

Setting EQ, Gates & Comps though, is fantastically quick and IMHO "musical" with a mouse. There is also get better info than the touch screen on each channel as I work on it. So if possible, I always use laptop + desk together for the best of both worlds.

 

That said, if my laptop is connected by wireless ( or a long USB cable )I then am able to go on stage to play with monitors, or walk the room to listen from different places. Various companies are working on "wireless USB cables" e.g. http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/u...bleFreeUSB.html so we will see how reliable they are when one is actually available (Somebody please tell me that these are already available ;) ). That will save using a second computer I hope.

 

I wouldn't spend money on a second computer & wireless link, but would use one if you have one already. Otherwise, get some longish USB extensions, I have got about 25m and this works fine.

 

So good luck with the TT24, I think you will enjoy it.

 

Edit. The device that Bob has posted I believe from the Mackie forums will not work with the desk but I could be wrong.

[cknapper]

Thanks for all your input, I was going to extend 4 x 5m usb cables but was told that USB only runs down to around 7m.

I would only use the laptop for Tech runs and getting a quick way to the eq / gates and so on. I wouldnt think about running the full show off this. At a push confrences but that will be it.

 

so how many USB cables can I extend then and how far would be OK, 30m 40m and so on.

 

Thanking you again

Carl

[MarkPAman]

so how many USB cables can I extend then and how far would be OK, 30m 40m and so on.

 

Can't say exactly, 4 x 5m cables (+ the one that came with the desk) works fine for me. When I once tried 10 cables, it didn't, but as I had little time I went back to four without experimenting any further.

[peternewman]

You could also get one of the USB to CAT 5 boxes (such as this one from CPC), which allow you to send it further down a bit of cheap CAT 5 network cable. Note however that this is a piece of network cable with nothing else on it. These boxes won't work over a network or wireless.

 

I've also run USB over more than 7m. I don't know exactly how far, but I've just joined a lot of cheap 3m extensions together before. However different devices may be more or less tolerant. On this note (and I've no idea here, I'm just suggesting it) a USB hub before the desk may help, as it could be more fault tolerant than the desk and would effectively buffer the signal.

 

Also I'll believe experience, but if the USB servers just imitate a virtual USB cable I can't see any reason why they won't work with all devices.

 

HTH

 

PN

[Bobbsy]

What Matt said. :(

 

I find running the desk from a laptop only is not that good. I have done it, but will avoid doing it again for any event using more than about 4 inputs.

 

<snip>

 

Edit. The device that Bob has posted I believe from the Mackie forums will not work with the desk but I could be wrong.

 

I don't use the wireless connection for shows at all...but where it really shines is during tech week/sound check. I love being able to "walk the room" and set delays, EQ, etc. from wherever I'm standing rather than having to dash back to the console and try to remember what I'd been hearing.

 

I fully agree with the comments about the limitations of trying to actually mix with any kind of "point and click" system...far too limiting compared to grabbing faders and knobs.

 

As for the silex, I know it works fine with Yamaha but make no claims about Mackie...though, in theory, if set up properly it should work with any USB device.

 

Bob

[Tomo]

Thanks for all your input, I was going to extend 4 x 5m usb cables but was told that USB only runs down to around 7m.

Technically USB shouldn't be extended at all - the spec says that all cables should be male-male.

However, depending on luck and cable quality USB extensions work some/most of the time.

[marc]

hey guys,

 

I have tried using a USB server with a TT24, and it does not work, you have to use a local computer and share the desktops. I think Mackie have done something funky inside the desk with the USB, and thus a USB server can not get the data to compile into packets to transmit over tcp/ip fast enough.

 

I have a tablet PC by HP, and I love it. I do lots of system engineering on large PA's using XTA's and BSS cross overs with it and its great.

 

I also find the Mackie desk really quite good, a friend who I work for occasionally bought one for conference work / business awards and small band gigs. I was not too sure about it when shown in the warehouse, but after running the desk on a few gigs I like the way it works. I have now mixed a few gigs with the tablet. it is strange not using faders, but the Mackie software has a full fader view, all 96 at once, and is quick to navigate.

 

I had a great gig with it, not a squeak all night, and it was nice to have a desk side of stage and not be fighting my way back and forth through the punters. Also for setting wedges and the like a tablet is fantastic, you do still need to set the desk on faders, and get a quick rough mix together, but after that go for a walk and have some fun.

 

Mk

[Bobbsy]

hey guys,

 

I have tried using a USB server with a TT24, and it does not work, you have to use a local computer and share the desktops. I think Mackie have done something funky inside the desk with the USB, and thus a USB server can not get the data to compile into packets to transmit over tcp/ip fast enough.

 

Slightly OT, but this does not fill me with confidence about Mackie or their ability to handle digital/software driven equipment. Surely it should be easy to create a standard USB interface like most other manufacturers of digital boards have done.

 

PART of the reason for my "Mackie basher" status is that I was an early user of their old Digital 8 Bus and lived through six months of hell...mysterious crashes and freezes, frequent software updates that made things worse or broke something new, etc. etc. I actually celebrated the day the D8B was packaged up to send back.

 

The TT24 may be a new generation, but it still doesn't sound like they've completely got the hang of software driven gear.

 

Bob