big-ben Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I remember many years ago that I could create echo by recording onto a cassette and then using the output fed back into the input, or something like that. I was wondering if I could do something similar by taking the output of a microphone and sending it via the aux send directly to another channel and sending that to the aux send, so it would feed back into itself, and depending how much gain was applied would increase or decrease the amount of echo. Is this feasible or am I just having one of my hallucinatory moments. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Hallucinatory moment. The tape deck created an echo because there was a time lag between record and playback. There is no time lag with the direct patch, only feedback. The system will go into feedback without any speakers involved. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I may be wrong, but I think all you will create is uncontrollable feedback, as you have no effective control over delay. The tape affect is created by having seperate playback and record heads which enable you to "track transfer" and add new input to a previously recorded track - when you do this "live", and depending whether you listen to the input or output, (if I remember rightly, this was the only time the position of the input monitor switch made a differnce to the output) - the echo is created by the time delay between the two heads. On cheaper cassete decks you had a combined record/playback head, so this effect wouldn't be possible. I learnt how to do it at drama school using a revox B77 quarter-inch tape machine - unfortunately much too long ago for me to lay my hands on my notes from the lessons! I could go to the store, get out our old B77 and find some blank tape and try it out, or maybe someone else remembers better than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I wouldn't have thought this was ever posible on casette, as there was insufficient holes in the casette body for sufficient tape heads. With tape, on better machines there were three heads, erase, record and playback, and it trick was to switch the machine so that it recorded what came in through the inputs (from your desk aux send), at the same time as outputing from the playback head (which went to some sort of aux return). Depending on the distance between the heads and the tape speed one got a distinct delay. By advancing the send control on the return channel(!) a bit(!!) one could make a single echo into multiple decaying echos. Or with just a bit too much enthusiasm, into a delayed feedback loop which degenerated into distortion, see any old Dr Who episode for an example. El cheapo tape decks had only two heads, an erase head and a combined record / playback head, so on these machines the echo stunt was not possible. Those were the days, eh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I wouldn't have thought this was ever posible on casette, as there was insufficient holes in the casette body for sufficient tape heads.Three head cassette decks have been around a long time. In both consumer and pro level machines the low end is usually 2 head, but the high end is 3 head. Here are a few examples. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Three head cassette decks have been around a long time.Well, you learn something every day... Perusing the instruction book for one machine (Marantz PMD221) from the search shows that it can do monitoring from tape whilst recording, so it can do the tape delay, but I remain dubious as to how much delay one would get. Its short enough on a Revox, albeit with the tape travelling rather more rapidly than a casette deck... Heres The Rest versus the Nakamichi ZX-7 http://k-nisi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/nakamichi-tape-pass.jpg http://bokenasu.oops.jp/ZX7/ZX7_13.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Good thing I kept scrolling! I was to reply to dbuckley's first post with a mention of the Nakamichi. It was a beautifully engineered machine...using an inherently poor domestic format. I think back in 70's I described it as what would happen if Rolls Royce tried to design a mini... OT: Back when I had a reel to reel, a favourite party trick used to be to set up a mic and give a guest headphones to wear on the output of the tape deck. I'd start in E to E mode and have them recite a nursery rhyme like "Mary had a little lamb". Somewhere around halfway through I'd switch to off-tape monitoring and invariably they'd sound just like they were drunk. Much cheaper than providing drinks! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The embarassing thing is.... I was once, a good few years back, the proud owner of a... (you guessed it) Nakamichi something or other Which probably had three heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnot Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I still have my Knickermacho BX300 and still use it for getting the best I can from dubious cassettes - nothing comes hear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-ben Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 So while all you old codgers blissfully reminisce , can I take it that the answer to my original question is a definite NO? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Yes, that's right - you'll get stunningly loud feedback. You need an actual effects or delay unit to do it (or a suitable tape deck to patch into and out of...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-ben Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 Can you then suggest a solution to my problem. I'm a DJ working from a laptop so I currently use a Behringer UB802 mixer. Two mic channels, on for the radio mic, one for the wired, and a channel for the laptop with 3CH EQ. Occasionally, such a last night, you have a function where people want to sing, or attempt to sing is more precise . I want to have some echo on the mic, just to try and make them sound a little better. I found this on the Behringer website at £38. Will it do, or can you suggest something cheaper that will meet my needs? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Yes, that will work, and 38 quid is almost certainly as cheap as you can go. Can't tell you how good the effect will be, but for kareoke I suppose it doesn't really matter - a good mute button makes most of those people sound better than any amount of reverb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I can't imagine you can spend much less for an FX box that is new. You may be able to find a used one for less, but that really isn't much money. As your UB802 has an FX send and return, that one should be fine. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-ben Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 If only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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