flypig Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Sorry M. Didn't mean to make my response sound as though your original question was stupid, please accept my apologies if it came across that way. Speaking as a set designer (yes, I'm one of those you can blame) I tend to treat raked stages a bit like a rabid dog - don't go near it, it bites! However, I completely accept your point that at times they are a necessary evil (not sure I'd want to put an Irish dance troupe on one though - unless you didn't have a choice of course). Getting back to your original thread though (and if you can't consider lowering the total height of the stage to provide front stalls view). Yes it is possible to build a raked stage with steel deck (and GridGirl had it about right), BUT (and it's a big BUT), it would take a fair degree of accuracy to get your angle right and great amount of under stage cross tying with scaff tube and clamps to make it safe. You would always have a constant moment ( or force) being applied to the front edge of the stage. The deeper the stage, the more the moment. The supporting legs themselves would also have a moment about the centre line and top joint (in other words as they got taller toward upstage, they are more likely to bend and collapse in the middle or where they join the stage). Basically, yes it's possible, but I wouldn't recommend it. Incidentally, the block(s) of concrete (probably located to the rear) would be a counterweight to forces heading toward the front of the stage. I have designed and built raked stages (mainly for opera) using a scaffold system and created the rake with tapered joists or wedges - very time consuming and fiddly. The deck has to be cross lapped (two sheets of decking ply, one on top of the other laid 90 degrees one to the other) for the entire width and depth of the stage, with your final finished deck goes on top of that. The wash up is, you can rake steel decks providing that; It is not too high upstage (around 600mm max. The rake is no more than 1:12 (1:14 is better - same as a wheelchair ramp). The decks can be fixed / bolted together, and they can be cross and plan braced below the deck. AND you have someone competent and fully trained AND insured to build it. AND for super safety, get an engineer to check it and sign it off. Have fun, stay safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelightbulb Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 many thanks ...............don't worry I wasn't offended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w/robe Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 ok well heres hoping!yeh let us know :blink: Well we are half way through the tech. and it is still standing. We've just teched the moment when 3 bookcases are pushed over like dominoes to end up leaning on a 4th bookcase. The cast then walk up the first 3 like a staircase. It worked brilliantly first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelightbulb Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 oh excellent what show are you doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w/robe Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 oh excellent what show are you doing? This is probably straying a bit from the original topic but since you ask. It is called Oz and is the story of L. Frank Baum writing and telling the story of The Wizard of Oz with the help of a young house breaker called Dot and his house keeper. During the show they completely trash the set including the bookcase incident, to climb to the wicked witches castle and ripping apart the sofa to use the stuffing to make the scarecrow. Better get back to the tech. now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 BLATANT PLUG We might just add that the show opens tomorrow evening (friday 4th), suitable for anyone over the age of 6, tickets are available, see Unicorn website for details. (hope the moderators don't mind.......I know it's a bit off topic, but the set does include a raked stage as discussed!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelightbulb Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 plugging never hurt anyone!sounds pretty cool and demanding on the stage crew to reset! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Dunc Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Sounds like demanding is a little of an understatement., unless these bookcases are made with lots of very strong bolts or whatever. Just wondering as an offside question, what happens if they dont fall right? Ah well break a leg Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 The bookcases are metal-framed, and hinged at the bottom to frames fixed into the rake, so they can only go in one direction - stage left to stage right. There's also a bit of gas-strut involved to damp the impact a little bit. It's working so far.. and back to the original question, the rake is absolutely solid - no movement at all, with non-vertical legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelightbulb Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 cool so it does work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 yes - but don't forget flypigs remarks about the risks of very long legs and extra bracing required for very tall structures. And the load bearing capabilities of the steeldeck are reduced by having non-vertical legs - so if for example you wanted to set up a very heavy lighting truss supported on the rake, or a very chunky bit of scenery, you would be well advised to check carefully with a structural engineer. In our case, the deck supports little more than a few sticks of furniture and the afforementioned bookcases along with 3 actors - all the heavy scenic items are either flown from the CW sets or sit on the real stage floor adjacent to the edge of the rake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidLee Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 er... it is a slightly silly question - raked stages are still essential in some circumstances - the most obvious one being when the audience are seated on a flat floor - conference style, or in multi-purpose areas. The reasons are quite clear. Someobody seated in front of a stage at even a modest height can't see that far back. Go a few rows further back, factor in hair from the person in front and a flat stage will be pretty well invisible. Imagine if it was an Irish dance show - virtually no upper body activity, and nobody bar the front row able to see the feet? If the audience is raked or tiered, then a rake on the stage isn't necessary - although we have a fairly steep stage rake, and modest auditorium rake. Flat stages are easier to work with,but a rake is pretty essential in many venues.Actually it's in steeply tiered auditoria that a raked stage becomes essential. The rake is designed not to make the stage more visible to the audience but to counteract the optical illusion that a flat stage will appear to be sloping away from them. Remember that in grand old theatres there could be two or even three levels of circle (up to "The Gods") so the audience's eye line could be very much steeper than anything you will encounter in a modern theatre. Back on original topic - you can cut your own legs for steel deck to any length you want, from scaffolding tube. However don't even think of using a hacksaw (except as a cruel and unusual punishment!) Hiring an angle-grider on a cut-off stand is the only way to go. Believe me - I've done it both ways! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hiring an angle-grider on a cut-off stand is the only way to go. Believe me - I've done it both ways!A metal cutting blade in a chopsaw is a good answer too, or a swivel head bandsaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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