Digital mixer channel allocation

[Lamplighter]

Background

My current setup is typically 8-10 stage mics and 14 radio mics plus SFX inputs and several channels for musicians. Mixers are usually Soundcraft LX7 for mics plus a Spirit Folio SX for SFX and the band. Outputs feeding four or five speaker systems and the usual assortment of dressing rooms lighting box etc, fed from auxes as required. Most shows are musicals.

 

Question

How to allocate around 30 channels on a digital board to operate practically.

 

With the analogue setup I have everything at my fingertips, with a digital board I would only have 12 or 16 faders to hand at once. I realise I could use scenes but with the limited labelling facilities on the boards I have seen I feel that I would lose track quite quickly unless I had lots of rehearsal time. (I wish!) How do you do it?

[mackerr]

It depends somewhat on which digital board you are talking about. since they each have different capabilities and methods of operation, your layout might change depending on the console. Which digital board only has 12 faders? The smallest I have experience with is the DM1000, but the 01v96 also has 16 faders. Even with only 16 faders per layer on a DM1000, you could have 14 RFs plus 2 stereo playbacks on layer 1, 14 stage mics plus the other half of the 2 playbacks on layer 2, and 16 band mics on layer 3. You can switch between layers at least as quickly as you can reach over between separate consoles. If you movve up to a DM2000 you have 24 faders in each of 4 layers, and easier labelling as it is electronic. Move up to PM5D and you get 8 DCA controls (like VCA) better matrixing, and 24 grp/aux busses, but only 2 layers of 24 faders.

 

It would be easier to discuss you specific needs than to speak in generalities.

 

Mac

[Bobbsy]

From your mention of 16 faders, I assume you're talking about something like a DM1000 rather than some of the bigger boards out there. This is actually a good question because, although I discussed quite a few aspects of digital boards and operation with other users, both when I was considering which to purchase and also for advice after I got mine, how to allocate channels was NOT one of those topics. I think every show and user is different enough that I had to learn by experience!

 

A bit of background: everything else being equal, for a good size musical I'd rather not use a small digital board with multiple layers. Given my druthers, I'd ask for a PM5D or M7CL and have a fader per channel. However, since my semi-retirement I'm doing lots more youth theatre or semi pro stuff using my own gear and I've done quite a few musicals on my DM1000 now.

 

And, FYI, that the mixer I can talk most about. A couple of years back, following a bit of a windfall, I had a look at the mixers on the market and finally chose the DM1000 as the best compromise for size, features, useability live and sound quality. I've also used O1Vs and 03Ds, the Behringer DDX and a number of the bigger digi mixers...but the DM1000 is the one I know best so it's what I'll be talking about here.

 

Also FYI, as purchased my DM1000 is loaded up with a couple of MY16AT ADAT cards plus four Behringer ADA8000 ADAT out Mic pre-amps giving me a total of 48 mic/line ins spread over layers. In retrospect, this was a mistake. In real life use, even when running fully loaded, a fair number of faders are things like effects returns (which can be internally routed) or digital inputs from effects etc. I've never needed more than 40 actual analogue inputs...and could have saved myself several hundred pounds had I known then what I know now!

 

Besides the 3 layers of 16 inputs, there's a master layer making the faders 8 aux sends and 8 bus sends. There's also remote layers but these are for DAW work so I'll ignore them here.

 

So...how do I lay things out? Well, I've done quite a few shows similarly sized to what you describe. I think I tend to use fewer stage mics than you do but, on the other hand, I quite often have to mic and mix the orchestra. I guess it kind of balances out.

 

Some general comments first. First, with a bit of practice, switching layers becomes such second nature that I do it without thinking. I suspect I can switch layers as fast as you could cast your eyes from the LX-7 to the SX. I'm certain it's as fast as it would be moving from channel 1 to channel 48 of a six foot long analogue board! (But then I have a limp!)

 

Second, don't be scared of the scene presets. They are your best friends! It took very little practice with them for me to be a total addict...and I miss them if I move to an analogue board. The one proviso here is that I tend to use them like mute presets (with the added ability to put a short fade in/fade out on transitions). Although it would be entirely possible to change input assignments etc on a preset, I think this would be too much for my addled brain and labelling system! I do however change output routings...more of this later.

 

Anyway, analysing what I do, I have two main methods of working which vary with the needs of a show.

 

My preferred way is to basically group things logically. I'll probably have RF mics on one layer, stage mics, specials and handhelds on another and the orchestra on a third. However, something I like to do on top of this is "waste" inputs by duplicating them so the SFX will appear on, for example, fader 16 on both the RF layer and the stage mic layer. The DM1000 has a facility to create a stereo pair "vertically" so SFX-Left is fader 16 and SFX-Right is fader 32...which is fader 16 on the next layer. I tend to use a bit of light vocal processing (mainly reverb) on musicals and I do the same with the stereo effects return, usually on fader 15/31.

 

If I have enough faders, I'll use a third to do the same thing with the L/R bus feeds of the band so I can tweak relative levels of mics and music.

 

I mentioned playing with output routing...and it's mainly on SFX that I do this. I love to get sound effects coming from the right place on stage so I often use the ability to change output routings on scene presets to let me do this. The effects may always be on faders 16/32, but the output can be anything from the main L/R prosc. speakers to a special hidden backstage so the barking dog is behind the door (for example). Not so often, but sometimes I do similar with routing on vocals...for example if a solo is on some special part of the stage.

 

It's worth noting that, having it all through one mixer, you may chose to play with some of your routing choices that the present use of two mixers forces you into.

 

As I said, the above is my preferred way of working...but sometimes numbers of channels don't work that way. My second method is to use the layers something like scene presets. My most recent show was done this way. I used the internal software routing to group necessary sources together on a layer. In practice, this meant that the ever-present leads would always be on the same channels...but others would change depending who was on stage...sometimes lots more RF, sometimes a bunch of handhelds (Act 2 was pretending to be a concert so I had the luxuery of real, visible mics!). Even here, I tended to put the effects return and SFX on the same channels to keep myself straight!

 

Using scene presets along with this allowed me to have enough layers...I changed my label strip at the interval!

 

I don't know about you, but I insist on a full copy of the script which I mark up with relevant changes of scene and layer.

 

A couple of other hints, specific to Yamaha. First, alongside using scene presets, get you head around the "Recall Safe" function. The vast majority of the time you don't want any changes to your aux channels even when editing scenes. The manual is crap in this regard...but basically you have to set up a "master scene" with all your aux routings and Scene 1, then "Recall Safe" the auxes so these don't change on subsequent scenes. Second, during the tech/dress, I tend to store scenes five numbers apart to give myself room to add extras. Once things are bedded down, you can go back and edit out the unused numbers so you can just hit next...but until you do this you have the ability to add extra small changes.

 

Perhaps the best advice I can give is to beg borrow or steal a mixer and play with it. Many of these things will become much clearer when you actually try them out.

 

So....that's how I've come to do it. I'll be curious to hear what solutions others have come up with.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Chris Hinds]

Well I may as well give my 2p to the arguement, though I don't have a huge amount of live shows on them I have covered most of the Yamaha range (01v96, DM1000, m7CL and PM5d-RH) in anger. I generally prefer the layers option to having a fader for every channel - I found with the m7CL I very quickly began to 'flip' the top banks of 8 channels down onto the master section during operation. Rather than a blow by blow of what I have done I'd rather say some of the points I've found out through use.

1. Make sure all inputs of a similar nature are on the same layer. I did one show where I put together a very standard input list where the band ran to 20 channels, and then I had 4 channels of Lavs, 2 radios and 4 wired mics. I should have put the Lavs on the second layer with the other vocal mics.
   
2. DCAs if fitted can be very useful to control things on lower layers. I'll try and make sure all inputs of a like nature e.g. rhythm section are all routed to a DCA so that even when the other layers are visible there is still a control element.
   
3. Scenes are your friends, like Bobbsy I generally use them like mutes to open and close appropriate inputs for each part of the show. I would like (on a digitally labelled desk) to also try changing the input patch and levels so that you never actually move layers, the inputs on the top layer become the 'master inputs' for whichever bit your doing, even if that means a repatch.
   
4. On the 01v96 especially I have often put K, S, H, on the top layer and the Toms/Overheads on the next layer down
   
5. Stereo pair inputs across layers so that Keys L is on top, Keys R is on bottom, that way you never lose control
   
6. I'd like to reiterate Bobbsy's comments on Recall Safe
   
7. It's not a channels thing but user defined keys for access to the Fx Engines and on the m7CL/PM5d (haven't tried on the smaller ones) using one for the delay tap tempo is also a good idea.
   

My thoughts anyway. The Soundcraft Vi6 is more flexible than the Yamaha at pairing of channels, which can be helpful. I can't recall if it let you join more than 2 channels together though. I'm looking over Digico's offerings on Monday and I must get a look at a Venue properly at some point soon.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Bobbsy]

I'll second Chris's mention of the User Defined keys...in fact I meant to include that in my post but had a "senior moment".

 

They can be useful for a great many things, especially if you remember that one of the functions you can put on them is direct access to specific scene presets.

 

Bob

[Lamplighter]

Thank you all for your replies. They all seem so practical and based on real experience!

Brian

[Ben Langfeld]

On the 01v96 especially I have often put K, S, H, on the top layer and the Toms/Overheads on the next layer down

 

Out of interest, what's the reasoning for this? Presented with the situation I would likely put all drum mics on a layer together and route them to a bus with a master on the other layers. Am I missing something?

[Chris Hinds]

Out of interest, what's the reasoning for this? Presented with the situation I would likely put all drum mics on a layer together and route them to a bus with a master on the other layers. Am I missing something?

Generally the main rhythm of the drum kit is made up of K, S, H and so having them readily accessible is helpful for bringing out the drums further in the mix without drowning everything in drums. It might be just me being 'special'

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Ben Langfeld]

Actually, that sounds very logical! In anything other than Metal, I think this would work quite well, but Metal tends to be very cymbal and tom heavy too, so not sure it would quite work there. Definitely something I'll experiment with next time I'm working with some lighter rock bands! Ta Chris.