GRisdale Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Our venue, a small scale theatre that has served us happily for many years, is soon to close to be replaced by a new "purpose built" theatre. Amongst the many appallingly bad design features of this disaster of a build (no bar for example) they seem to have left out a stage crossover. This means that there is no way of getting from the stage right wing (and scene dock) to the stage left. The only suggested solution is to have a rear curtain a metre from the back wall to mask a "rat run", though this will obviously mean that our cyc (back wall) would be covered up... I'm interested to know:1. Have you ever heard of such a new build? (could this be the worst new theatre ever?)2. Would you actually agree to tour your piece to such a venue with no crossover? Particularly those who need a cyc. "Why do they need to come on from both sides? So long as they can get on stage.""Yeah, you're probably right, after all Shakespeare did write: "Enter stage left if available"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I suppose it depends on if you have enough depth. The crossover problem seems to be there because the cyc is at too far upstage. Can you not just move the cyc a meter downstage? I guess that depth will be the issue, but if you need to get accross (and I can't think of many shows that don't) then you don't have too many options. Not all new build architects have theatre experience - many, it seems over the years, have building experience, and little input on the production requirements of an entertaibnment venue. I saw one recently where a studio theatre had a tab track running around the perimeter (great) - but all doors opened into the space at one end, because the corridor couldn't be blocked by doors opening the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I doubt I will ever be surprised by the crass incompetence of architects in general, whatever the cause in this case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James S Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 a rear curtain/ drape hung a metre from the back wall will billow around if people run through the gap at the back (as they invetiably will) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB2 Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 may I ask, is your cyc actually a fabric cyc, or a back wall painted white? before you laugth at me when I toured I did come across with a back wall painted white they liked to call there 'cyc' to be honest I think a lot of small scale tours sometimes have to go somewhere because they need to book it up, I think it would be something a surprising amount will 'put up' with, but that doesnt mean they wont be grumbling! but a lot of shows comprimise a lot, we eneded up having to re-build parts of our set when we went to the ustinov studio at the theatre royal bath, ahh fun times!! and there were other examples which I could go into, but I wont, haunting memories ..... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewR Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Top of my list for new build idiocy is: No staff toilets!Closely followed by a kitchen so small that the catering department take the green room so they can actually cook for more than 3 people. Best one I have heard of is positioning FOH bars such that there is a strip on the stage, about halfway up, that you can't actually hit... If you can get involved with the planning, if its not too late! you can point out theses.....issues. At a new scotish venue the council were planning to not allow get-outs after 9pm. They were very surprised when it was pointed out that most touring shows would find that a little objectionable. They didn't realise that shows dont like coming back to get-out the following morning. Its not just the Achitects that don't know this stuff. The client often forgets to ask the technical staff. If no crossover is your only issue your doing well! unless you have a very shallow stage :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumbles Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 As an civil engineering student I would like to second the fact that some architects are as far removed from this planet as jupiter is :P Also, the theatre I work in at uni has no run around, but has a fire exit door either side of the stage that we have to make do with. This means performers running along the pavement between appearances. However, we are having a refurb done soon, and are having a run around installed outside for not too much. Don't know if you could do this, but would keep your stage depth. As others have said, it depends on the stage depth as to whether you could form a "back wall" away from the back wall, if you know what I mean, to have as a run-around. In terms of touring companies, most of the ones we receive make some fuss about it, but generally agree to doing perfomances. Many can work around it, or find a way to create a run around. The thing to remember is that unless they have a venue to peform in, they can't get paid, so smaller companies will generally be willing to make do. Also, what kind of companies do you normally have, dance or theatre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 In answer to the question - our 'cyc' is indeed a wall painted white. The points made about "getting in early" on the planning of the building are very well made - We tried. And tried. And tried. And were ignored. The construction work started a month ago. Earlier today I went over to see the site after work, hoping to find some positive feeling from the place whilst looking upon the completed metal work. Instead I noticed that they've put the three FOH catwalks in the wrong way round... That'll be an interesting conversation in the morning. On the cross-over front I do now see that you could run out of the scene dock, walk along the outside of the building, and enter into the stage left fire escape - as suggested above. I guess we'll have to buy some umbrellas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 as others have pointed out, small scale venues vary enormously in size, facilities and availability and expertise of staff. from experience (and with a cynical eye) I doubt whether reasoning that "it presents some inconvenience to the visiting technicians" would be a strong enough argument to stop a venue being booked - the criteria for tour booking being availability, finance and politics, in the main. Even geography comes pretty far down the list (saturday cardiff to sunday edinburgh for a 9.00am get in? no problem....) assuming that you have enough depth, there's nothing wrong with creating a crossover with black drapes. if they are weighted and stretched, you won't get the billowing problem described elsewhere. Our crossover corridor has 6 doors in it, (for perfectly valid reasons of sound and fire isolation) so we regularly use a cloth cyc or black drape to mask a much shorter on stage version. Of course if you're in a position to be involved in discussions with the architects and more importantly still in time to make a difference, then of course you should halp the architect to understand the features required.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 As an experienced "tourist" from large to small scale, I can tell you that the suitability (or otherwise) of a venue for the technical/practical requirements of a production, or potential inconvenience for touring tech staff, are not often taken into consideration by managements when booking tour venues!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greateastern Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 My school theatre has a run around simply because they ran out of money half way through an extension to a new build (yeh thats right they were extending a new theatre just after they built it) theatre and decided that what was to be an extension to the stage would instead be a back stage run around area. Thus our stage is too wide for its depth and the lighting bars are cramped in. It also means we lack a lot of curtains etc that would have been present. Oh I could go on about the other features lost to a lack of money as well. Returning to poor design. Well the lighting box that isn't sound proof, is far too small and houses the dimmer racks with nothing apart from a vent axia for cooling. The loss of the spot cage and subsequent placing of spot positions in the auditorium so that spot operators cannot get out or talk during shows. This problem has also affected us when we have placed the sound crew in the auditorium (admittedly with much running of cables to and from the box). Being the only tech who knew what they were really doing that night, and even I am not trained, when we had a fire, which I have already talked about elsewhere on this forum, it was almost disastrous. I was only able to escape because to fight it because I insisted on having an escape route and when some members of the school sat down in it there was an exchange of expletive. Needless to say I won that one. Ah the joys of architects who don't know what they are doing! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Returning to poor design. Well the lighting box that isn't sound proof, is far too small and houses the dimmer racks with nothing apart from a vent axia for cooling. To be honest, tech boxes that get extremely hot and aren't sound proof are fairly common in small theatres. Many of the problems you're talking about can be found in many school theatres, and it's not really fair to criticise the architect - they're running a tight budget, and many schools can't afford to get in an experienced theatre designer. If the architect didn't know what he or she was doing, the building would be falling down! Very few school theatres are touring houses - the few examples I can think of off the top of my head were built with touring in mind, and so lack the problems you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greateastern Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I see what you are saying but much of the problem in our hall was that the hall was designed with no consulation of anyone vaguely technical either in the school or outside of it. The architect I agree was given a hard job being give the task of building a new hall within what remained of the recently burned down one but there are a number of examples of inefficient use of space, the hollow behind the box which is too small being a prime example. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 The playhouse in Cheltenham has a Cyc created about 0.75m from the back wall of essentially a studwork and plaster construction. The space above this is used for storage.... simple and effective, and not to hard to retrofit. Only down side is loss of abour 1m of stage, which might be critical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumbles Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Having spent the day rigging in a local school, I have another gripe. When considering the H+S implications, the school decided no to allow ladders to be used to reach the FOH bars, but to buy a geni. This in itself seems like a wise move, as the hall has a flat floor, and rigging cantats off a ladder isn't my idea of fun. However, and here comes the problem. When the architect who the school use drew up plans for the redevelopment of the hall, he managed to specify the postions of the chair such that one bar cannot be reached by geni, as its above a bank of chairs. The other bars are conveniently above the aisles, but the aisles aren't now wide enough to fit the geni along without removing all four legs every time its moved and then postioning the lift exactly so that the legs sit under the chairs. :( This is after being told to leave a gap of however much, but left this gap from centre to centre between the chairs. Mini rant about bl**dy architects over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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