school lighting quotes

[paulears]

I was at a school today and was shown some quotes for a 'lighting system'. It looked as if they'd got three quotes in - a new build underway. What got me was the way the quotes were designed, and where little extra profit items were tucked in.

 

One had included 3 different quotes - the cheapest was for:

1 Fat frog

1 Robe 250W wash

1 Robe 250W profile (can't remember the model)

a few generic fresnels

 

The next quote up replaced the 2 robes with next versions up, and the Fat Frog became a Bull frog.

 

The most expensive quote had a Frog 2 with 2 575W Robes - but again, just one of each.

 

 

The best bit were monitors for the Frogs at £275 each and frog keyboards at £45. The £180 ish for the generics was offset a little by £26 per bubble.

 

 

Now to me, there is no way this can be the most suitable system - if I'd designed it I think I'd shoot myself for suggesting a Frog 2 (or even the bull frog) controlling just two fixtures - one wash isn't much use - same thing for the profile version. The price quoted for the movers wasn't too bad - but a quick google easily finds plenty of people flogging them at quite a bit less. The price of monitors now doesn't quite equate to nearly three hundred quid each.

 

This kind of thing - putting in unbalanced quotes at inflated prices - to clueless purchasers seems the lighting vesrion of the double glazing cons of a few years ago. No doubt the dealers involved would simply state this is the equipment the school asked for - but it seems rather daft to me.

[Light Console]

I follow simple rules with moving lights, hire/buy in pairs of identical units. So two wash heads fine, two profile heads fine, one of each, is not much help. Granted you may an odd number across a back light bar, but at some point down the line, you may want pairs on the stage.

In any case, generics are probably more important to start a rig with, but build DMX/Ethernet, and non-dim power in while in the construction phase of a project.

[Andrew C]

Perhaps (Devil's Avocado hat time) the spec had called for one of each to teach what it could do? Thought not...

[tokm]

I can Andrews point about if its more for teaching the different uses between fixtures, but like, in a school that just never is the case, in a uni or college running theatre tech courses maybe.

 

I must agree with the o/p. The odd parts of that quote (whatever the end users circumstances) is the price for the extras:

 

The best bit were monitors for the Frogs at £275 each and frog keyboards at £45. The £180 ish for the generics was offset a little by £26 per bubble

 

That just screams 'installer taking advantage of a school' Ive seen it before in schools near me, they pay way over the mark because the companies know they'll pay for it. And the kit is usually the brand new toy out on the market, within reason of course & it adds to the school going wow, u can give us the latest bit of kit for that price :huh:

 

The price of monitors now doesn't quite equate to nearly three hundred quid each

 

Its probably because its a Zero88 branded monitor, or its a decent quailty (but still overpriced) TFT screen.

 

Think someone on here said it best.. The spec for school installs are what that the best deals the installer can get, not whats best for the school. Or something along those lines. Granted its not like this in all cases, but alot of the schools round near me have had this done to them.

 

Rant over :unsure:

 

Tom

[Guest lightnix]

Like Light Console, I'm wondering what on earth they're going to do with just one of each kind of moving light :unsure:

 

How many times has it been said in here?

 

Don't buy moving lights for schools - spend the money on a more reliable and cheaper to maintain conventional system.

[ampcats]

That is one thing I really cannot abide - I'm all for making a live-able wage, but what would that company's rep done if their child came home and described that as the new equipment that all the local fund-raising had got?? - I bet he would have been livid that his child's education was being hampered by some $£&^$%& who marked a keyboard and monitor up £35 over zero88's own prices...(IMHO high to start with)

[Tomo]

I'm sorry, but the school shouldn't be so stupid as to fall for the monitor and keyboard prices - they buy them for their ICT computers, so they should *know* how much they really cost.

 

Heck, my 19" TFT was cheaper than that.

[Andrew C]

they buy them for their ICT computers, so they should *know* how much they really cost.

What makes you think that a drama department knows where ICT are, never mind actually talking to them?

[ampcats]

Note from the moderators : this member has deleted/edited several of his posts in a fit of pique. Apologies if it makes the thread harder to follow - we've reinstated what we can, but the newer ones hadn't been cached so there's nothing we can do about them.

[paulears]

I smile - I see original Blue Furse kit still hung and operational after 30 odd years - how many movers will still be working in........5? spare parts? even replacement manuals. I saw original Furse instructions still available for each student to have a photocopy.

[ampcats]

Note from the moderators : this member has deleted/edited several of his posts in a fit of pique. Apologies if it makes the thread harder to follow - we've reinstated what we can, but the newer ones hadn't been cached so there's nothing we can do about them.

[paulears]

I rather like their list of kit - a nice selection of really useful stuff. I'd not be worried doing a design with those tools to use.

[ampcats]

Note from the moderators : this member has deleted/edited several of his posts in a fit of pique. Apologies if it makes the thread harder to follow - we've reinstated what we can, but the newer ones hadn't been cached so there's nothing we can do about them.

[mac.calder]

I am a big hater of people who rip off schools - For example, I rang a company (which I will not name) about purchasing a 12ch audio multicore. He asked length, I said "About 10M". He said "We don't do 10M off the rack the closest is 8M in the 12ch but we can make a 10M." (which would not reach). So I said how much. He comes back with $240. Me being me (and because it was for a school), I went down there. What do I find in their racks: $120 - 14M 12ch multicore, $140 - 10M 16ch multicore. Needless to say I chose another company to go through. Some companies love to prey on schools because 9/10 have unskilled staff with no idea what they are doing.

[Bobbsy]

Count me as another hater of companies that rip off schools.

 

HOWEVER...

 

I also have a major concern about the way schools (and, for that matter, pretty well ANY government controlled purchaser) ALLOW themselves to be ripped of.

 

Far too often, the people involved in purchasing simply don't know what they're doing but it's all too rare for the advice of somebody who can advise to be sought. Sometimes it's the "sell us what we need" syndrome; other times the brother in law of the assistant head of drama (who once did an amdram show in the village hall) tells them they have to have some kind of quirky list of gear. Add to this a usually-convoluted quote procedure (which often favours the cheapest even if the quotes are for totally different things) and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

I guess I'm conscious of this because I've seen just too much waste locally in the past few years.

 

My daughter's high school has bought a reasonable number of radio mics over the past three years. Unfortunately, advising on the purchase was the Head of Drama's hubby. Guess what? They have 3 different, non compatible brands of TX pack with four different types of capsule, each using a different connector. Less than half the mics can be used at any one time because of frequency conflicts...and the best two mics are illegal to use because they're on licenced frequencies but there's no budget for a licence. FYI, my radio mic story is just an example; similar things have happened with lighting and effects purchases. Oh, and they justified buying a new mixer because "somebody turned on the phantom power and blew up the old mixer and amps". Huh? Anyway, now there's a big "don't turn on" tape over the phantom power switch...despite the school owning several nice condensor mics!

 

A similar tale of woe applies at the local theatre/arts centre. A couple of years back they got a six-figure grant for refurbishment and replacement of gear...but a good half of what they bought has never been used because it was ill thought out. One example was the purchase of an extra 24 dimmers...with no additional electrical supply and a board that was already controlling it's maximum number of dimmer channels. In this case, all the purchase decisions were taken by a manager who, effectively, was in charge of marketing the facility but who had no techical background.

 

I could go on, but I hope you see my point. Ripping off schools is bad...but they should be better organised and managed as well. Caveat Emptor applies to schools as well.

 

Bob