What Amp

[Jonny Rock & Roll]

Hello

 

I'm looking into buying a Fender amp and I'm not sure what to choose.

Before anybody put's the Twin Reverb (which is always the one to go for) Its a bit to rich for my blood if you get my meaning. I'm looking to spend up to 700 quid but I'd rather not have to spend that much!!!!!!!!!!

 

What I'm looking for is an amp that has a great blues sound but can also wail if I feel the need to. Because I'm in a giging band I need something hard wearing but it also has to be loud I dont want to have to mic it up at all.

If anybody has any suggestions please leave me a message.

 

Cheers.

 

Jonny Rock & Roll

[simonlast]

The Fender Hot Rod Deville 212 is a 60watt tube power amp, Ive heard this is a great stage amp, however I dont know anything about tube amps, a 60watt standard amp isnt very loud, does the tube make it more powerfull?

Ive also heard that tubes can blow quite offten.

 

I'm watching this forum with great interest for an answe to this question

[J Pearce]

Tube amps often seem louder for the power rating as you can run them into clipping without sounding too poor.

 

For instance I work with a guitarist who uses a 30W fender vibrochamp which out performs my 300W bass stack!

[paulears]

Does it have to be Fender? Have you tried the pod/behringers - the amp simulations are pretty good, and a mid range tranny combo would maybe serve you better. Do you need sheer volume? I've got a VERY loud, big combo, but to be honest, something much less would do. It's got a behringer in it and I use it for both guitar and bass.

http://www.limelight.org.uk/guitarcombofrontincguitar.png

[dbuckley]

I've got a VERY loud, big combo

That active PA cabinet with integrated preamp is rather stretching the usual understanding of the word "combo"...

 

But I do agree with you on one thing; modern electronics can just about remove the need for the raucous combo of yesteryear. I like the Roland stuff personally, I've got a GX-700 rack preamp, plug in straight into anything that is fairly flat and makes it go louder and it sounds like a proper guitar amplifier. All Roland's COSM products (now the VG series) are fairly fantastic. They all sound like buzzboxes at low level in your bedroom, but once they're heard in context with a band then they pretty much rock.

[simonlast]

I tried the Fender Hot Rod Deville 212 (60watt tube power amp) since posting on this site earlier and it didnt seem very loud, I need an amp to play in a resonably loud rock/blues band do you recon that a 60watt tube has that kind of power?

[dbuckley]

OK then you've got a problem, most easily stated as: a combo is not up to the job.

 

A 60W valve combo is loud, but has no dispersion, combos in general dont have dispersion. I went through a small pile of combos in my youth, Peavey Classic (60W 4x10), Fender pro reverb, Marshall 50 2x12, HH 100W, AC30, and of that lot the AC30 was certainly the loudest. But an AC10 with a mic in front of it plugged into a decent PA sounded a lot better and definitely went a lot louder.

 

If you want something valve that sounds Fenderish but is loud enough to be used unmiced with a loud band then Orange 120W + 4x12 (or 2 x 4X12) is what you need. Me, I'd rather have the equivalent Marshall non-master volume jobbies, I prefer the tone of the Marshall over the Orange, but you want Fender, and Orange is definitely more leaning that way. Modern kids like that dual rectifier stuff, but thats not for me I'm afraid.

[J Pearce]

Actually most modern kids are buying Vox AC30s and Marshall valve amps.

 

Retro you see....

[dbuckley]

Actually most modern kids are buying Vox AC30s and Marshall valve amps.

I have noticed the pricing the old kit goes for. In the eighties a s/h AC30 was 45 quid, and I went into debt to buy a nice marshall 50 and a 4x12 for 120 notes. Turns out that a warehouse full of old battered AC30s would have been about the best investment it was possible to make. Go figure, as the Americans are fond of saying...

[Bobbsy]

As a non-guitar playing sound guy, may I put in a plea for guitarists to try and get "their sound" using smaller amps miked or even devices like Pods with DI boxes rather than the biggest, loudest backline they can afford? Usually, you're part of a band and the reproduction of vocals etc. will be much better if you restrain yourselves!

 

End of party political broadcast!

 

Bob

[dbuckley]

You're fighting a losing battle with a lot of guitarists (and indeed bands) there mate.

 

The OP specifically wanted unmiced, and if the band is in balance and within the size of venue that the band's stage level can be accomodated, then it can all work out OK. So a rockin' band with a guitarist with a Marshall 100W, bassist with 300W and vox and kit through 1K of PA works pretty well in big pubs. Go back a few years it was the same lineup but a Hiwatt 200W valve PA top for vox and drums(!) along with a couple of 4x12 columns....

 

To step beyond that requires a lot more PA, as its got to replace 300W of bass, which isnt actually too hard, but replacing a 100W clipping Marshall with a PA needs a lot more than another 100W of PA. But its well worth doing if you can do it. And many venues have PAs in-house (or they did when I was last in UK venues, a few years ago) that are well up to the job.

 

On the other hand, I've got an army of techniques for supressing excessively loud guitarists, in all cases without losing their tone. And in all cases the PA input is a mic, so no big changes.

 

I've left 4x12s in the dressing room. Being in the Marquee dressing room with a pair of guitarists' stacks in it is an earth-shaking experience, let me assure you, but it does get a load of noise off-stage. If quality is more important than quantity (which, TBH, isn't often the case at the Marquee!) then its a technique that works well. Of course, it doesnt have to be the dressing room, any place backstage will do, preferably a room with a closing door. All the planning this trick takes is to carry some decent length jk-jk speaker cables. [update: I think it was Mr Digby's in Birkenhead that I stuck a 4x12 in the beer "celler", which was fine till a barrel needed to be changed over and I was not popular with The Management who found it a bit noisy in there Somewhere in B'Head anyway, the beer celler was a bit behind the stage...]

 

Combo too loud - stick it in a cable trunk with an SM57 and shut the lid. Sure it'll rumble about a bit but again it gets noise off-stage. If you like this a lot and have truck space then a permanent arrangement can be constructed, a 1x15 at one end of a trunk and a SM57 at the other, and maybe some accoustic wadding. The only touring implementation of this trick I know of had a flightcase with a speaker at each end and the mic in the middle, and the guitar tech had only one of a pair of the combo amps on, so a hot standby arrangement.

 

Finally, small electric heaters to warm the place up, either the Marshall Powerbrake or (better and less controversial) the THD HotPlate. I've still got a 5 ohm huge resistor I picked up at a surplus store yonks back, and that and a 16 ohm cab is an adequate match for a 4 ohm setting on the amp but rather quieter.

 

Buit ultimately this is all junk, using a Pod or Roland Cosm (as I do these days) is far more civilised. Marshall used to do a small EL34 powered rack mounted amp, about 20W, that would be quiet enough yet have "that" sound. Another toy I have is an ADA Ampulator, no longer availabe except on eBay, but its a guitar amp and speaker simulator in 1u, which I bought for guitar, but its actually so much better for distorting vocals!!!

 

Enough rambling for one day, I think.