Musical on a traverse stage

[audio]

Hello!

 

Background, amateur show of West side story on a traverse stage with about 7 rows of raked audience on each side... stage is about 30' long (down the audience rows) and about 10' wide (between both audience banks). Band at one end of the stage and audience, not a large afair, just kit, bass, guitar, sax, keys and maybe a violin, planning on 6 radios for the cast.

 

So, what I'd like to know is where to put my speaker stacks, was thinking of not having any subs, using something like turbosound TCS 35s, and putting one in each corner of the stage on a stand, covering the audience on the speaker's side of the stage, each bank of audience therefore having two speakers. There are no flying points above the stage. Alternatively, I could fly the speakers behind each audience bank and angle them towards the audience opposite. What will work, I feel a stack in each corner will give a funny stereo image, while pointing the speakers across the stage will give problems controlling feedback?!

 

Any other ideas? I'm at a loss. No posts about line arrays, XL4s, DBX 480 speaker management or other expensive options please, its on quite a strict budget, and I have to already hire the radios.

 

Cheers

John

[Bobbsy]

I had an extremely similar situation about 2 years ago.

 

My first question is: do you really need radio mics in a production where the most distant member of the audience is only 7 rows from the action? We certainly found that we did not, even with inexperienced teenage actors...and if you can do without your life will be orders of magnitude easier.

 

Second, you mention stereo image. I strongly recommend you forget mixing in stereo.

 

Now, in my case the solution (because of the very small area involved) was to use relatively small speakers clamped to a central lighting bar...I can't for the life of me remember which ones but I can dig out the file if you like. Working the angles, a total of four speakers proved enough to cover the whole audience: two pointing at each side. In my case, I also had some "specials" hidden in various places to proved spot sound effects.

 

Bob

[paulears]

I too question the radios - let's face it any attempt to make the loudspeakers cross the acting area to reach the audience is going to end in screaming feedback, as the actors are close to the speakers than the audience! If you really need to amplify them, then boom mounting, corner of the mouth stuff is going to be essential, and lots of speakers angled down, and away from the talent. Sounds like a no win scenario to me! Also, from a staging point of view, very tricky to block. Too late to change, I suppose?

[RumbleO]

... stage is about 30' long (down the audience rows) ... Band at one end of the stage ... not a large affair,

Yup, interesting problem trying to figure where the noise belongs for performances in the round or on a trav.

 

From your description of flying points above and behind the audience, I would fly one pair of speakers pointing down the audience, at the end where the band are, and then the voices integrate naturally with the backing and it doesn't seem odd that the voice is detached from the talent producing it.

 

You should be able to cover 10 metres adequately. Only problem I foresee is if you have to really push the volume for an actor with a timid voice.

Are the cast all competent singers?

 

I wouldn't worry about stereo image on the voices, keep them centrally above the band as the audience will (I hope) be following the actors visually.

 

If you have other sound cues, you'll want more precise placement for the sound effects.

If needed, I'd put the second pair of speakers on the floor under the raked seats at the far end and use the panning the length of the stage to give an idea of where the sound (police siren?) is coming from.

 

HTH

 

(I've just previewed this and noticed Bobbsy has answered while I was spelll-checking.) I like his idea of the "specials".

[PoppaDom]

I agree with many of the posts already posted.

 

In this situation radio mics sound like a big no no and as for stereo imaging then the best advise I would give would be to forget it.

 

I would utilise 2 speakers at the end of the band to give a band "source" for their sound and mix the band into these, I would then mix this to the unamplified sound of the cast (which has been pointed out, won't be far from the audience)

 

I would then utilise the other 2 cabinets for the purpose of sound effects and the like most probably located one pointing at each bank of the audience from the alternate side. (relying on the human brains perception of sound for the stereo image)

 

Working like this the sound should be relatively simple and effective... My only warning being the use of effects units and the like and ensuring that both sound effects and effects units sounds are mono compatible. Many reverbs sound very weird in mono if you are not careful!

 

Poppadom

[Dmills]

Silly thought,

can you get your hands on some monitor wedges and place half a dozen of them on the each edge of the stage facing the audience?

 

A decent graphic/parametic eq will be critical, and you will NOT get rock musical levels (at least without headworn boom mikes and talent who know how to project!).

 

Delaying the speaker feeds by 30ms will really help the imaging (as well as making the feedback somewhat slower to build).

 

I second the notion of dropping the radio mikes if you can (or at least most of them), there should be no call for it in the space you describe.

 

Good luck!

 

Regards, Dan.

[Bobbsy]

I<snip>

 

Also, from a staging point of view, very tricky to block. Too late to change, I suppose?

 

OT, but (technical challenges aside) the traverse staging worked really well on the show I worked on...very powerful and very involving for the audience.

 

Bob

[audio]

Thanks for all that, people!

 

Bobbsy, basically, small speakers above the acting space was my original idea, but this show is traverse in a pros. arch theatre, there really isn't anywhere to hang the speakers from. Thanks for the idea

 

I too have suggested dropping the radios, but the cast range from about 15 to 30 years old, and I have to assume, from what I've heard, that they were chosen on their acting merit rather than singing skills! most of them really can't project. I have also asked for a slight adaption of the staging, but the director has his 'vision' and is now set to it... (I have only just been asked about this but they've been planning for months apparently)

 

I like the speakers at one end and accept that the sound will be one sided approach, I think really its the only way to go. Getting my hands on enough monitors to cover the whole audience would be a problem, although another good idea.

 

Thanks to all

John

[Bobbsy]

Regarding speakers, I was thinking of things potentially as small as Control 1s or similar. These can safely be hung from lighting pipes with the proper fittings. Surely the show is being lit!

 

Regarding radio mics, 7 rows doesn't take any projection at all. Even a whisper will carry so long as the levels on the music are being controlled. However, if people insist on radio mics, your only hope will be to use "boom" type mics with the capsules as near the mouth as possible. Your speaker placement is going to put you in feedback city!

 

I have, when budgets are tight, made this sort of thing for myself with bent coathanger wire and shrink wrap....

 

Bob

[J Pearce]

EV S40s would be ideal for hanging on the bar either side of stage.

[PoppaDom]

On a real budget Behringer Monitor 1C's! 30 squid a pair and can be hung on a steel drift or similar! Cheapo, cheerfulio!

[James]

I just did a run of WSS in thrust where I had a number of similar problems.

 

For the start of the run we were in an arts centre with some fixed rigging. I made use of the lighting bars and with some drifts used a number of control 5s to cover the audience. We had less than 5 rows of audience on each side.

Personaly my biggest problems were volume of band and the last thing I wanted to do was re-enforce them. I used a rack of radio mics, mounted on the hairline for discreet and subtle re-enforcement of the soloists so they were not lost under the band.

I made use of delays and indevidualy delayed each character's mic to the three banks of speakers to help locate them in the performance space.

This show toured to a couple of other venues.

Neither had any rigging and lighting were using the entire capacity of their stands.

I used SX300s in a similar configuration to how you sugest in your first scenario. Suitably delayed and used with subtle levels it didn't sound too bad.

Personaly I wouldn't like to use your last scenario but it depends on your choice.

[TheRave]

Sorry to trawl up and old topic just would like some up-to-date comments on the subject.

 

I'm toying with the idea of doing a musical on a traverse stage and have thoroughly thought about the complex blocking etc. but the sound set up is still eluding me.

 

I am confused as to why a lot of people are saying that radio mics definitely won't be needed on this type of staging. I understand that pretty much any actor can easily project a dozen rows of seats without any effort but that's with the actor facing the audience. Half the time the actor will be facing away from one side of the audience and will be directing their voice in the complete opposite direction. Surely for this reason radio mics will be needed for principle solo singers. Singing loud enough to project behind you is a lot less possible.

 

My thoughts of speaker placement is having two speakers rigged above the stage facing the audience.

 

The band is going to be in a separate room and mic'd, I'm not sure about the speaker placement for band foldback for the actors.

 

Also I'm not sure if fills will be required for the front rows of the audience.

[Bobbsy]

Well, obviously it all depends on a mixture of things: how large is the room and what sort of acoustics does it have, how many rows of audience per side and, particularly, the "sound" of the show. Something you want to sound like a rock concert will impose different needs than a show where you want subtle, natural sound.

 

However, the concept that all sound must be amplified to be heard is a modern one. The human voice is capable of filling a pretty large space with no help at all. Look at the size of the Globe Theatre. In Elizabethan times, actors used to fill that without any help at all, despite a large, noisy crowd.

 

(At this point in typing a reply, my wife asked me to bring her a cup of tea. Why is this relevant? Well, at the time of asking she was in another room with two walls and a partially closed door between us--and I know she was sitting at a desk with her back towards me. Despite all this, I heard the request fine...and broke my train of thought to go make tea. This just goes to show that in a small, hopefully quiet studio theatre, the audience should have no problem hearing actors even if their backs are turned.)

 

Anyway, back to your post. Whether or not you need radio mics will depend on the size of the room and style of show you want to do. If the production choice is that you have to bring in the band music at high levels, then maybe you will have to mic the cast. However, not every show needs music at this sort of level and, if not, then you might not need reinforcement on the cast in a drama studio-type room.

 

Your proposed speaker placement sounds good to me and, again in a small room, you probably won't need separate band monitors for the cast and shouldn't need "front fills" either. However, without seeing the room and layout I can only guess. However, my theory would be to use a few sound sources as possible to avoid all sorts of slightly-out-of-time echoes bouncing off the walls and ceilings. In a small room, the fewer speakers you use the more controllable and intelligible your sound will be.

 

Bob