Junior8

I agree with the cost to Amdram groups being too high atm. I recently started investing more into LED for my various groups but its only viable because I work with so many groups doing multiple shows a year.

 

Also add the costs of changing the cabling in the smaller venues and most groups will need a desk update to use LED effectively and I don't see many smaller groups changing anytime soon

 

Well yes but I wouldn't be able to count the number of halls of various kinds visited where Strand and indeed Furse and even in some cases Major equipment over forty and sometimes fifty years old is still in regular use. (Leave alone the thousands of 243s that must still be working away in professional houses) It is still there a) because it was built like a battleship but mainly b) because back then someone was wiling to pay what in today's money would be seen as unrealistically high purchase prices. This stuff was not cheap; ever. Some of it will probably be on its fourth control. It has stayed there quietly working away while everything else around it has been replaced more than once. Ir owes nobody anything and may be it is time to bite the bullet and start fund raising.

I've always loathed the fashion for blacks which was worming its way in as long ago as 1972. I always assumed it came in with the fashion for open stages.

Both of the above suggest that these "restrictive procedures" are a bad thing. Personally, I think it's good. You're spending public money. These "restrictions" are all part of the due diligence process to make sure that the money is being spent fairly and legally. You can only spend money with companies that your finance people have checked out, and where there is no conflict of interest.

 

Au contraire. In most cases it involved the taxpayer paying more to suppliers who had no compunction in dumping rubbish on the unsuspecting when it suited them.

 

 

 

Well Tomo you're lucky you didn't have this before. Twenty odd years ago the county I worked in had just the same restrictions - though you could get round them in the case of big purchases that went out to tender. I always suspected it was as much to do with mythical 'discounts' that the supplier had agreed to give which in most cases brought their price down to round about everybody else's! By the same token a few firms, mostly the sort of useful one man band you know and trust, that the county might have dealt with told me that they took so long to pay they weren't interested in council business.

Paul's right again - keep it simple. The more complex the more chance there is for something to go wrong. If it didn't have to be wood but could be cloth instead there are probably even better ways to do this.

This is why back in the day equipment was manufactured especially for schools by outfits like Clarke & Smith. It was of mediocre technology even for the time and the performance was often worse but it was by and large indestructible could be dropped from great heights with a good chance of survival and could be repaired, in the are event this was necessary, by the electrical shop on the corner with bits off the shelf or readily available form the RS catalogue. High end equipment of high power and the everyday rough and tumble of school life is a mix that will always involve the risks outlined without proper training, management and most importantly accountability.

I presume they'll all know who you are - so what the heck is the point?

It's all here https://www.radiocentre.org/files/faq.pdf. You would need an additional licence I think

Dave Horatha in the arches at Shepherds Bush Market (about halfway down) also there used to be several good fabric workers at Queens Market just outside Upton Park tube.

Q build might be a cheaper alternative https://www.stagesystems.co.uk/stage-hire/ but I can't see what is required, delivered and maybe erected, coming to an affordable price for a one nighter.

Write off the initial cost in year of purchase either using capital allowances or expenses. Show licence renewal as an expense in following years.

 

That seems to be the easy answer.

 

I suppose any debate on where it goes on the tax return would arise from the question of whether you 'own' software that requires an annual licence fee or whether you are leasing same.

I mean, Roger (Junior8) even started replying to himself.

 

I find myself doing this increasingly these days - even when I haven't said anything

 

 

 

I'd use a chain block anyway!

Indeed but the principles still apply but don't forget - a lot of weight is added by the block.

 

 

Agreed but in the case of a basic one a total device weight of 9kg for a WLL of 500 kg 9 m lift is a reasonable trade off.

I'd use a chain block anyway!

It seems fine to me. It didn't detract from the music you could see everything, maybe it was a bit too blue for me but in general I thought it did and you did a good job. Keep it this simple. I can't speak for the music - Genesis never did anything for me.

 

Simple isn't fashionable of course but you need to remember there are some of us old enough to recall the introduction of what used back in the day to be called 'light shows' when I think too often they were used to detract attention from the compulsory drum solo* and endless noodling by mediocre lead guitarists sadly influenced by Cream amongst others. (Anybody out there who can still listen to sides 3&4 of Wheels of Fire in one sitting without terminal boredom setting in? I can't sadly.)

 

Personally the increasing use of lighting in concerts in the seventies and eighties put me off rather - as a punter - if I'd been the other side of the curtain though rather think I might have displayed a different attitude.

 

*Years ago in one of the music papers there was a cartoon of a drummer starting up while the rest of the band left the stage - as they always did - but were picked up by limo and went for weeks holiday in the med returning to find him still crashing away. Trust me so often it felt like that! It's like double bass solos in jazz unless you are Cleveland Eaton

"I was now heavier than the barrel"

Surely if the downforce was the same there would be no mechanical advantage in using a 2:1 pulley system? Something has to give and that must be speed. The trade off it seems to me is less force applied to the rope set against increased time to do the job. Wouldn't the down force be the load plus the weight of the second pulley plus the half force needed on the rope plus any friction. If the load was 100 Kg over one pulley the total downforce would be 200Kg, in the case of a 2:1 system the downforce would be 100kg plus 50Kg plus the weight of the additional pulley and rope. I seem to recall from physics that the speed ratio in any ideal machine matches the mechanical advantage so in the case of a ideal 2:1 pulley system it would take twice as long to do the same amount of work as a simple pulley but it would be easier.

 

Or have I missed something?

Most of the British soldiers at Dunkirk were regular soldiers or territorials. They would have been disciplined even during what looked certain to be defeat. So would not look and act like tramps (apologies to tramps).

 

 

Or reservists like my paternal grandfather who, like most of his ilk, responded immediately to the recall - in a radio broadcast I have been told - in 1939 ended up at Dunkirk and never came back.

 

If it's rubbish well no surprise there then - it's made by the BBC!

It's worth remembering in these circumstances that you can write a RA that satisfies yourself and your venue that such a precaution is not required or get a second opinion from another firm that does not mention such things. But that does not magic away the report from the first inspection company. That report becomes part of the history of the system and, in the case of an accident resulting from failure to implement such a precaution, could be used against you.

I don't recall the OP saying anything about this recommendation being given in writing??

 

 

Agreed - I just assumed it was more than a sort of off-hand remark.

 

 

 

 

I agree, it was a recommendation by the comp[any brought in to check the system for its annual inspection. I don't give a lot of weight to their findings, but as things go I have to try to prove my point, preferably by example.

Ok the first question should be "who?" Said that should be included - risk assessments should be written by suitably competent people who make informed decisions about actual risks and problems rather than responding to the crazy ideas complete strangers come up with so how much weight your give to this suggestion should begin with the validity of the person asking it

 

It's worth remembering in these circumstances that you can write a RA that satisfies yourself and your venue that such a precaution is not required or get a second opinion from another firm that does not mention such things. But that does not magic away the report from the first inspection company. That report becomes part of the history of the system and, in the case of an accident resulting from failure to implement such a precaution, could be used against you.

 

 

 

 

 

If you were having a lot done wit the same sort of art work screen printing might be a good solution - or short run pad printing or laser engraving. Ir won't come cheap but it would be pretty permanent. One firm I know personally who can cover most of this kind of work is near Portsmouth https://www.tealwood.co.uk/ but there are similar outfits everywhere.

If they won 't listen - walk away. There is nothing else you can do. You might like to ask them if they fancy explaining themselves to the coroner when things go wrong - as a parting shot. It sometimes works

Right let's go back to basics here. The average rate of breathing is between 12 and 20 times a minute. Assuming that the exhibition is open for eight hours a day over nine months this means that the mechanism used will have to operate say 20x60x8x273 times. I make that 2,620,800 operations. That to me takes one to the reliability limits of what can be put together out of bits and pieces that one might have to hand. On those groundsMatt's notion of using a ventilator seems an attractive one.

Interesting thought. When Furse were dominating the schools market they introduced a patch panel using Bulgin plugs that went alongside their modular dimmerstrip product. Prior to that their small resistance boards - a rather less well built version of the Junior 8 - used normal 5A as did Strand. In my experience in the 1960s and early 70s in schools these boards were always hard wired into a local fused breaker and it wasn't until the modular thyristor product came along that any thought was given to having them served by local plugs and sockets for mains input. I think it was the portability that led to the change. Funnily enough I don't think the unshielded plugtops were ever seen as a risk per se since in those days pupils were very rarely allowed anywhere near the equipment but you are right about the pre-rubber versions. What worried the local electrical inspector here was the increasing freedom of schools through the devolving of budgets to them to buy their own lanterns without his supervision and the increasing availability of reasonably cheap 1KW lanterns as opposed to the previous typical 500W which had almost automatically given some protection against overloading small basic systems. Interestingly when Pulsar did a 6 way with IEC sockets it was not recommended in my area due to the need to re-wire any 5A patch panels. BTW when specifying a new studio theatre as late as 1990 I was looked at very askance for demanding 15A as standard in a school instalation.

This whole installation looks odd. Quite why they selected Wallpacks which needed a hard wired patch panel - using 5A IEC sockets moreover - when there were better solutions available off the shelf is a mystery. I wonder who's used T&E into the industrial types which should maybe have something a bit more up to the job than a cooker switch with no protection. Then to carve up the side panel of the bottom wallpack to install the three analogue control sockets makes no sense.

 

The OP may be able to get it all working but it will still look and indeed be a bit of a lash-up.