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Rigging Truss Advice requested

#1 User is offline   Firewood1 

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 06:26 PM

Please help,

I am lighting a show and wanting to add a FOH truss. The theatre has the flying points and motors already installed. Other than obviously hiring the truss, is there anything else I need? For example, how do I attach safety's and where to etc. Also, what piece of kit do I need to actually attach the truss to the hoists?

Thanks

#2 User is offline   Andrew C 

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  Posted 29 September 2005 - 06:32 PM

View PostFirewood1, on 29 Sep 2005, 7:26 PM, said:

Also, what piece of kit do I need to actually attach the truss to the hoists?
Thanks

The piece of kit you need is someone who knows what they are doing. From this person you can start to learn the rigging trade. Sorry to be so blunt but you cannot just go for it in this case!
Andrew

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#3 User is offline   damian666 

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:11 PM

I entirely agree with Andrew C.
I do this sort of stuff for a living. I get very fed up with people thinking that rigging etc is just a way of taking money away from other departments or that it can be done by anyone able to tie a knot. If you do not know the kit you will need, then you categorically should not be doing it. At any point. Full stop.
As a way of backing that up, if you do a sight visit in the near future and have a look through the holes in the floor/ceiling below the motors and you can see probably 3/4 rows of seats. These would contain all of the mussy squished people if something went wrong.
Sobering isn't it!!!
If you want to discuss proper rigging services (labour and equipment), pm me.
Ladies and Gentlemen, you have been a great audience and please have a safe journey home.

#4 User is offline   danjshelton 

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:15 PM

Hi,

As Andrew has said get a rigger or someone with the appropiate knowledge in. Also a good starting place to learn about flying trusses and other useful rigging techniques is Chris Higgs's first book

(Didn't realise it was on amazon till I googled for it!). Very worthwhile and worth every penny!

Cheers

Dan
Edit (Amazon link added, The Blue Room gets a cut if you buy though the link. Andrew C)

This post has been edited by Andrew C: 29 September 2005 - 07:32 PM


#5 User is offline   trussmonkey_2 

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 09:00 PM

I couldn't agree with Damien666 more.I'am also a freelancerigger and it never ceases to amaze me that people still think that rigging is a job that they can get anyone to do.Why is this so?

#6 User is offline   damian666 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 05:51 PM

One last little note on the subject from my point of view;
as Chris would no doubt agree, his book which is very good does not make you competent to do it all! It is a very good way of learning loads and loads. Still need to spend time with people in the field doing it, once or as the book is read.
Ladies and Gentlemen, you have been a great audience and please have a safe journey home.

#7 User is offline   paulears 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:19 PM

It does strike me that there is a simple solution here. The venue has flying points and motors, but no truss. So what are the motors for? I'm assuming when they need it, they hire it in. Why not ask the venue what they normally use, and then let them, as the people on site who know, fly it. If there is no history of using truss in a venue, then the advice you've been given to stay away is very sensible. In this one, though, it seems like it has been done enough times to justify the motors, so they'll probably tell you they hire in from XYZ, so do the same. Design away, present them with what you are going to hang, and let them sort out how to keep it aloft. In a four wall empty venue, then it's more of an issue - while yours sounds as if it's half done already.

#8 User is offline   bright spark 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:28 PM

A little ;)

This is going to come as a very random question something I should know, but having been spoilt with the likes of Vertigo I have never needed to know....

People say unlike chain hoists the motor is not needed at a large height, so my question to you all is how is the motor/chain rigged at such height then???

Sorry for the stupid question.....

#9 User is offline   danjshelton 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:48 PM

View Postbright spark, on 2 Oct 2005, 7:28 PM, said:

People say unlike chain hoists the motor is not needed at a large height, so my question to you all is how is the motor/chain rigged at such height then???


Hi Bright Spark,

is the question how or why the motor is rigged in the roof as opposed to the truss?

If it is why, then the answer is because the motors sound like a permanent install at the venue described. So to save there tech's having to un flightcase some motor's, pull the chain upto the point, run power/control cables to the motors, run the motor through to working height, sling the truss, and then begin to load the truss with whatever there placing on it, they can simply lower the chains for the motors from the grid and sling the truss, lots less mucking around!

If the question was how, then it's simply inverted from the way that you describe (Motor at truss "climbing" chain), so the motor has physically been lifted to the grid/point, and is hung directly onto the point in the roof, and then the chain is simply lowered (In this case sounds like through a hole in the ceiling for neatness).

Cheers

Dan

#10 User is offline   bright spark 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:53 PM

Thanks Dan, you have answered my question.

Sounds like pretty much the way you deal with chain hoists.

Are big motors/Lodestars a big heavy to heft around catwalks etc?

#11 User is offline   Andrew C 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:59 PM

Yes. Next dim question? Sorry, but that really is pretty obvious. ;)

Most places with fixed motors will be either just that; fixed. In some cases they may be on trolleys mounted on RSJs so they can pick-up from several points.
Andrew

Why didn't life's problems hit me when I was a teenager and knew everything?
You can lead a student to knowledge, but you can't make it think.
A PINT? That's nearly an arm full!


#12 User is offline   damian666 

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 10:28 PM

couple of things really.
on a little note, be very careful when using th eterm "inverted". When talking about a Lodestar, "inverted" means body down. they were originally designed to be on beams or trolleys in workshops etc with the hook going up and down. The black bodied versions we see all over the place are an entertainments variant designed to meet the needs of the industry. A good decider is body up or body down. saves confusion!!!
If you are going to get the venue to supply/advise the kit beyond the hook then I would say that they should do the rigging of it and the safetying etc. It is very hard to be in a safe and knowledgeable position (legality too) if so many people are involved. If you don't know how to do it therefore you don't know how to spec it, then get a person (in venue or not) to spec it and do it. Watch them and learn something. A lot of venues too would turn around and say "shall we supply and rig it for a charge, or do you want to supply it and be responsible for it?"
Ladies and Gentlemen, you have been a great audience and please have a safe journey home.

#13 User is offline   danjshelton 

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:20 AM

View Postdamian666, on 2 Oct 2005, 11:28 PM, said:

on a little note, be very careful when using th eterm "inverted". When talking about a Lodestar, "inverted" means body down. they were originally designed to be on beams or trolleys in workshops etc with the hook going up and down. The black bodied versions we see all over the place are an entertainments variant designed to meet the needs of the industry. A good decider is body up or body down. saves confusion!!!


Hi Damian,

Thanks for the advice, I did know that inverted mean't body down, I was trying to explain in laymans terms to the poster and as we we're talking about the opposite to how he had seen motors (body down) then inverted seemed like a sensible word!

Anyway, as you rightly say, Body up/down sounds like a much better terminology to use.

Cheers

Dan

#14 User is offline   Pete McCrea 

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 12:25 PM

Lodestar + 20m of Chain = approx 80kgs
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#15 User is offline   damian666 

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 12:35 PM

View PostLittle DJ, on 3 Oct 2005, 1:25 PM, said:

Lodestar + 20m of Chain = approx 80kgs

Close enough but the reason for telling us is...?!
Ladies and Gentlemen, you have been a great audience and please have a safe journey home.

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